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Why I don't shoulder shoot elk!

 
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  #15  
Old 12-05-2011, 04:02 PM
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Re: Why I don't shoulder shoot elk!

tag....
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  #16  
Old 12-05-2011, 06:20 PM
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Re: Why I don't shoulder shoot elk!

Good pics bigngreen,
I made that mistake once. It was a hard lesson. 3 days later, after passing on other critters,(couldnt just give up. I was sick) I finally caught up with him. Two guys shot 8 times, & one of them hit it in the neck, & dropped it. (lucky shot....) Ya.... Anyway, I got down to them to confirm it was the same bull id hit 3 days earlier, so I could finally put that sick feeling to rest. They thought I came to claim it, wich was NOT the case. After a quick explination I was alowed to examine my poor shot placement. The hole, & dried crusty blood didn't lie. My shot was almost identicle to your pic, but without an exit.
Now, I've killed my share of Elk, & I'm definately not above breaking one down if the conditions are right, but since that day, I've shot a lot lower. IF I go thru a near side leg bone, the angle will be in line with the vitals or I pass on the shot. I've never been a fan of a high shoulder shot. I always strive for behind the shoulder in line with the off leg, but sometimes you don't get that shot. I take what shot is presented to me or pass alltogather.
I for one greatly apreciate the pics, & comparison of that shoulder socket! I will continue to err on the safe side, & keep em in the lower two-thirds if I have to break them down.
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Last edited by winmag; 12-06-2011 at 10:46 AM. Reason: oops, i wrote your name instead of your handle. fixed now.
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  #17  
Old 12-05-2011, 07:25 PM
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Re: Why I don't shoulder shoot elk!

Here is a good pic that shows the onside shoulder in relation to the spine. The spine drops even lower as it disappears behind the shoulder.
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Why I don't shoulder shoot elk!-elkanat.jpg  
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  #18  
Old 12-06-2011, 01:38 PM
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Re: Why I don't shoulder shoot elk!

SO if I am to understand your story correctly, the bull was running when shot at a distance of 350 yards, (running downhill as in forward momentum) when the bullet hit him ran him through the shoulders and broke vertebrae? And as the story also implies, the bull was getting ready to tumble when someone shot him in the neck getting ready to tumble at a distance of 350 yards?? Since the bull didn't make it far before someone else had shot him, what makes you very certain he wasn't going to die after gravity and momentum finished with him? I would have never found out myself, because I'm not irresponsible enough to shoot at a running animal, much less an elk; nor would I have the skill to hit one in the neck tumbling at 350 yards with a single shot. That bull would have lived to grow beyond 300 inches if it were my shot to take, and I could argue that shooting a running adrenaline charged elk in the boiler room could have the same ugly outcome as you're talking about into the black timber.

The shoulder blade articulates like a human shoulder blade. It can be moved up and down to accomodate uneven terrain, similar to many other animals. As such the top of the blade can move in relation to the spine. The blades show an un-even bullet trajectory (strong uphill or downhill angle). I've personally never seen a softpoint bullet leave such even neat holes in bone and such little damage (especially after breaking two vertebrae on the exit). The hole is more typical of what I see with more solid constructed bullets. If we do the analysis of the physics of the 150 grain 7mm slug, and the sheer foot poundage it imparts to bone material, especially when we push it INTO the spinal column regardless of whether we sever it or not, it TYPICALLY imparts instant incapacitation to the animal similar to someone bashing a human in the spine with a sledgehammer without cutting the spinal cord....paralysis, and often resulting in massive intantaneous failure of nervous system function and organ failure.
The cow example you gave is what happens when you give a knucklehead a big rifle with poor bullet selection....IMO, if the bullets didn't completely penetrate, they were inadequate for the purpose.
The second picture you're showing is essentially a knee or an elbow in human equivalent. I've never advocated an elbow or knee shot....barnes bullets or 8 mag aside. As far as bowhunting goes....who in hells hockeysticks would try to shoot through bone with an arrow anyway?? Apples to bananas I say.
I've had to shoot a bunch of elk twice with lung shots, but have yet to shoot a single deer, elk, or antelope more than once with a good double SHOULDER (not elbow) shot, but all of the animals have been standing still, perfectly broadside. Its a pretty simple deal....knowing your anatomy and knowing where to hit an animal is the key.
The lesson for the day is that a 7mm with 150 grain softpoint bullets is a bad choice for shooting running elk at 350 yards. Unless you consider shooting at any animal that you respect at 350 yards is a dumb thing to try in the first place .
I'll tell you what....I've shot at a bunch of running coyotes at those distances, and most people don't even fathom what kind of lead it takes to hit those targets with a rifle, much less small targets like shoulders and necks. I'd like to meet the fellas that pulled these shots off....I think I could learn something from them.
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  #19  
Old 12-06-2011, 02:23 PM
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Re: Why I don't shoulder shoot elk!

So why would you shoot at small running coyotes, but not at a larger elk? Both are living, breathing creatures that deserve to be shot properly with as close to 100% certainty that the shot will lead to an immediate, humane death IMHO! Is it because an elk is a regal, majestic animal and a coyote is just a varmint in your mind? I was enjoying your analysis of the situation until you ended your post the way you did!!!
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  #20  
Old 12-06-2011, 03:54 PM
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Re: Why I don't shoulder shoot elk!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topgun 30-06 View Post
So why would you shoot at small running coyotes, but not at a larger elk? Both are living, breathing creatures that deserve to be shot properly with as close to 100% certainty that the shot will lead to an immediate, humane death IMHO! Is it because an elk is a regal, majestic animal and a coyote is just a varmint in your mind? I was enjoying your analysis of the situation until you ended your post the way you did!!!
because it is JUST A COYOTE and it is a whole lot easier to kill a coyote than it is an elk. the will to live and the absolute strength and toughness is not there with a coyote, sure they can get away with a bad shot but but after all it is just a coyote and they dont actually do anyone any good other than fun targets.
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  #21  
Old 12-06-2011, 06:17 PM
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Re: Why I don't shoulder shoot elk!

Funny, but I was asking the person that made that post and not for your opinion. Yours doesn't surprise me at all when you have admitted violating the law shooting at them illegally right from your vehicle on roads! We'll forget about that one though because you already gave your excuse for that one! It might be easier to kill a coyote, but I guarantee you are way off base as far as hitting a small animal like that compared to a huge elk.
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