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What is the minimum amount of ft. lbs needed

 
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:18 AM
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What is the minimum amount of ft. lbs needed

I have been a competitive shooter and I have an accurate rifle and under good conditions, I am capable of hitting an elk's vitals at ranges up to 1000 yards, but I believe my range is limited by the amount of energy needed to cleanly bring an elk down. I read once that a bullet should deliver a minimum of 1500 ft. lbs. on an elk. Does anyone have any information on the minimum amount of ft. lbs. needed to cleanly bring an elk down. If there are other websites or threads that address this issue, I would be appreciative if you could provide a link to the site. I use an HS Precision rifle in .300 Win. Mag. and I reload my own ammo and use a Berger 185 gr. VLD. Thanks
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Old 06-25-2009, 06:27 AM
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Re: What is the minimum amount of ft. lbs needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyd View Post
I have been a competitive shooter and I have an accurate rifle and under good conditions, I am capable of hitting an elk's vitals at ranges up to 1000 yards, but I believe my range is limited by the amount of energy needed to cleanly bring an elk down. I read once that a bullet should deliver a minimum of 1500 ft. lbs. on an elk. Does anyone have any information on the minimum amount of ft. lbs. needed to cleanly bring an elk down. If there are other websites or threads that address this issue, I would be appreciative if you could provide a link to the site. I use an HS Precision rifle in .300 Win. Mag. and I reload my own ammo and use a Berger 185 gr. VLD. Thanks
Randy

There is a system that is called the -Taylor Knock Out Values.

And it uses the estimated energy for one shot kills on game.

It uses a recommended energy and a minimum energy for each animal.

On Elk it recommends 2000 ft/lbs and 1500ft/lbs as a minimum. this is at the Point of Impact.

Deer are 1200 ft/lbs and 1000 ft/lbs minimum.

These values are conservative but are a good place to start.

You could use less energy but the results would vary especially if shot placement was not
the best.

J E CUSTOM
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:52 AM
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Re: What is the minimum amount of ft. lbs needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyd View Post
I have been a competitive shooter and I have an accurate rifle and under good conditions, I am capable of hitting an elk's vitals at ranges up to 1000 yards, but I believe my range is limited by the amount of energy needed to cleanly bring an elk down. I read once that a bullet should deliver a minimum of 1500 ft. lbs. on an elk. Does anyone have any information on the minimum amount of ft. lbs. needed to cleanly bring an elk down. If there are other websites or threads that address this issue, I would be appreciative if you could provide a link to the site. I use an HS Precision rifle in .300 Win. Mag. and I reload my own ammo and use a Berger 185 gr. VLD. Thanks

I think the first thing to look at is the bullet and see where its velocity performance numbers are. Accubond recommends impact velocityís no less than 1800 fps. Having that then I look to see where the 1500 ft lbs (recommend low for elk size game) energy number is in relation to the velocity. I then find the yardage where the two numbers are acceptable and use that number as a max range. Iím working on a load for a new 300 Win Mag and without any real testing FFS is showing the max yardage at 820 for the 200gr Accubond velocity @ 1859 and energy @ 1495 and momentum @52.43. If that was a proven load then 820 yards would be my maximum range for elk.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:03 PM
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Re: What is the minimum amount of ft. lbs needed

A few years ago when more seasoned long range hunters were on the site, the impact energy that was considered minimum by them was in the 750-1000 range for elk. I would try a search of about 3-4 years ago for "impact energy for elk"
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:39 PM
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Re: What is the minimum amount of ft. lbs needed

Needed Energy for killing.... is it a myth??

Thats one of many, Best way to find them is search for " elk energy"
And enter the posters name "Darryl Cassel"
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:57 PM
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Re: What is the minimum amount of ft. lbs needed

Don't get hung up on KE. It is not just the KE to be concerned with. It is how the bullet performs at certain velocities. There are tons of examples that can be given here. So I guess I will give one. A .204 ruger shooting 32gr bullets at 4000fps vs a 44mag shooting 240gr bullets at 1450fps, both have just over 1100ft-lbs. Many people carry and trust 44 mags as defense against bears, but I doubt many people would trust a 204. But both have less KE than your setup would have at a 1000 yards.

I would trust your combo on elk at 1000 yards maybe a little further. Guessing on some numbers here since I don't know your load, but your bullet is probably going 1800fps ish at 1000 yards which is 1330ft-lbs. One interesting thing to look at is the tests Barnes did. They shot the 168 berger into gelatin at 1890fps. It clearly expanded and penetrated plenty in my opinion. I shoot the 190 JLK and have always figured 1200-1300yards to be a good max depending on temp and altitude. This results in about 1600fps impact velocity. And also corresponds to about as far as my rangefinder will work anyway.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:41 PM
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Re: What is the minimum amount of ft. lbs needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyboy View Post
A few years ago when more seasoned long range hunters were on the site, the impact energy that was considered minimum by them was in the 750-1000 range for elk. I would try a search of about 3-4 years ago for "impact energy for elk"
Sorry coyboy; but I think there are more seasoned long range hunters on this site now
than a few years ago and I for one would never RECOMEND using 750ft/lbs on an elk.

The Taylor knock out Values were developed for Humane one shot kills.

They were not the absolute must to kill with just RECOMENDED based on a lot of experienced
big game hunters actual experiences especially on dangerous game.

You can kill a cape buffalo with a 22 but would you want to. I think not unless you have a death
wish.

SCI not only endorses the Taylor KO values it also recommends it's use on all big game because
it works.

Energy is not every thing but it is one of the key elements along with bullet performance ,
accuracy and impact velocity.

Nothing personal I just don't like sending a man armed with a knife to a gun fight.

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