Agreed. Sometimes it is weird. I was telling him about my 338 Edge and how I needed 300 grain bullets for it. He seemed to think I was crazy. I talked him into getting a 300 RUM. When we went out to purchase bullets for him to reload, he wanted to buy the 150 grain bullets. It was pulling teeth and took some significant peer pressure to get him to buy the heavier pills.
Destroy vital tissue and things die. Various factors and circumstances affect the best way to do that. The 30-30 and the model 94 in its day and time fit the ticket. A small rifle handy, readily available will fill the pot by virtue of being available when animals present themselves. These days we (most of us) don't wait for an animal to wander by while we're
fixing fence, moving cattle, or herding sheep. How often does one get a Nevada Elk tag? How many days in the field does that reduce to? How many opportunities, and what kind are there? Mostly we have different circumstances than previous generations and fit our equipment accordingly. I haven't killed as much game as some, but I have done it in a few places. The canyons and jungles of North Idaho are different than habitat than Texas or Nevada. Elk hunting in Wyoming an elk that moves 600-800 yards when hit may be recovered as it can be seen until it lays up. That same elk in N. Idaho, NE. Washington, or coastal Washington is gone. Look at the Defensive Edge (and others) videos and you'll see animals can fall or slide nearly that far. I once saw a steer shot for slaughter with a 30-30 that was on its feet 15 minutes later. Shot by an experienced hand, with a rifle all he used for was killing steers, ammo from a half empty box, the previous ten had worked just fine, placement good, angle good, range less than 15'. Steer crossed his eyes, sat on his ass, shook his head, got up and ran full speed to the far fence (400 yards) turned left to the next fence line (200 yards) turned left and came back down that fence line another 200 yards and stopped. He lay down there and was finished with another round behind the ear. If left alone he likely would have died there, but who knows? Stuff happens, it may not have happened to you before, and it may not happen to you again, why not be prepared for opportunities that aren't optimal?
Last edited by HARPERC; 07-26-2013 at 06:35 PM.
Reason: word change
Your right, it would give you a lot more room for error as that 300gr er would shoot end to end on an Elk. I guess for me its just that all I have is a .243AI I have a cow elk tag for this winter and thats when I will see what really happens. I will not take a shot over 200 and I will wait for the moment when I can put it right into the lungs. I think that when your limited with the rifle you have you know what needs to be done. When I hunted with a .54 cal Round Ball I never ever took a shot over 100, prefering to take a shot at no more than 75 so I hunted like I had a bow in my hands.
With the lighter stuff is all about distance plus bullet placement. I have read where one guy shoot Rooster Pheasants with #9 shot but only in the first part of the season when the first year birds are hold ing really tight, for him pellet size is not about the size of the bird but the distance, the same with shooting Elk with smaller caliber rifles. Some years ago I went deer hunting with a freind .......he had a tag but I did not . I was hunting for Coyotes with my .222 loaded with 46gr Calhoon bullets. He told me that if you see a nice buck shoot it.............Of course I ran into a really nice 4x4 one moring and hit him right behind the shoulder at just over 100 yards. He went down tried to get up then fell back dead..............is the .222 a Mule Deer cartridge, not really but when all things come together you would never go hungry. Hey, some guys hunt with the .22-250 and the Barnes 53 gr X bullets and seem to alway collect a nice buck................Its what works for you.
It really boils down to bullet performance and shot placement. If it was me, I would probably opt for a 105 gr Barnes X or a bonded bullet. Make sure the shot is in the lungs and not in the shoulder or slip the shot in behind the ear and be prepared to keep shooting until the animal is down. If I only had one gun, that is what I would do and a cow elk is much easier to kill than a large bull.
Remington model 700 300 RUM LH 26" rem ss/blued receiver lam stock 215 Berger @3070/180 NAB @3300/Leupold 6.5-20x50
Remington model 700 338 RUM LH 26" Bartlein 5C #4 Muscle Brake, blueprinted action, sako extractor, jewell trigger, bell and carlson Alaskan stock/Black cera coat/Sightron SIII 8-32x56 moa reticle, external elevation turret
Savage LH 22-250/Sightron 4-16
I've seen so many elk whacked with a 243 it still surprises me when someone seems to think you can't kill elk with one! I've seen elk piled up hard shot with a 243. Blow a hole through the lungs and they die, I've seen holes from a 243 through an elk chest that that would make a 338 blush in embarrassment. One little gal last year shot a bull facing her just of center crossing to the back of the of side ribs, it crushed him no problemo!
low a bullet fast
Put a bullet that will open and trash lungs and make it to the other side, 105 Berger is stellar or a decent soft point works wonders. I would avoid neck shooting thought, an elk neck is thick solid muscle and can slow a bullet down enough to not break the spine, I've found quite a few bullets next to the spine that just did not have the poop to get it done.
"Pain is weakness leaving your body"
Sounds like your speaking from a lot of experiance, and experiance seems to be far and few now adays. i dont like the idea of a new rifle just in case I buy an Elk Tag. Two years ago I had an antelope tag and shot the 80gr TSX Tipped Barnes, The hole it put into that Antelope was scarry, and that was with a Standard .243 not the Ackley I have now. I would guess that if I had I could get close to 3500 fps, scarry to think about it. The only problem I have with the Ackley is that it WILL NOT shoot boat-tail bullets. Once I tried Flat base WOW, it shot. 100 gr Sierra Pro Hunter average .306 and the Berger 80gr Flat base, Three groups, .166, .184, and blew the last one it went .301 If you beleive in something it works.
What part of Montana are you from?
My Wifes Parents live in Carmen, Idaho just south of Montana right along the Bitterroot Mts................Thats where I will be hunting next year.