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Energy vs. Energy Transfer

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  #8  
Unread 04-30-2014, 12:00 PM
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Re: Energy vs. Energy Transfer

"Knock down" power relies on the transfer of kinetic energy to the target AND its affect of vital organs. The broader the wound channel, the greater impact the transfer of kinetic energy will have on vital organ function. For example, when a bullet strikes a bullet proof vest it's kinetic energy is (hopefully) transferred over a broad surface. While the bullet may not penetrate, the energy is still transferred to the individual wearing the vest and can, if there's enough of it, cause internal organ damage.
The following are, admittedly, generalizations. But they can help provide an understanding of Energy vs Energy Transfer.
Small bullets at high velocity carry a lot of kinetic energy but their cross sectional density isn't sufficient to prevent them from traveling through the target without transfering that energy to the target. If a small bullets happens to strike a vital organ it can be effective. Generally, however, it is a poor choice for anything other than ground squirrels or similar game. Large caliber bullets, carrying less kinetic energy, have a broader cross section density so they tend to remain in the target and therefore transfer more of their energy (albeit less total energy than the smaller bullet) to the target. That makes them more suitable for hunting large game.
That said, the transfer of energy is not sufficient in and of itself. Unless that energy is transferred to a vital organ (artery, heart, etc.) the targeted animal will remain active until sufficient bleed out occurs or until the shock of it's transferred energy has enough cumulative impact on vital organs to render it unable to function.
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  •   #9  
    Unread 04-30-2014, 02:27 PM
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    Re: Energy vs. Energy Transfer

    energy transfer is dictated by bullet design velocity and mass.if I take a 308cal. 180gr. Bullet and fire it at 2700 fps and take that same bullet and fire it at 3300fps it energy transfer will be different at different velocities read about John noseler experience on a moose and why he invented the partition. Bullet weight retention and velocity will dictate transfer
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      #10  
    Unread 05-01-2014, 12:49 AM
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    Re: Energy vs. Energy Transfer

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cohunter14 View Post
    However, the one thing that really can't be debated is that a larger diameter bullet should typically do better, assuming everything else is the same at impact. A larger hole will never hurt you . So whether you are shooting a Barnes, a Berger, or whatever else is out there, a .338 will do more damage than a .30, etc.
    I would concur!!
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      #11  
    Unread 05-01-2014, 12:53 AM
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    Re: Energy vs. Energy Transfer

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FearNoWind View Post
    "Knock down" power relies on the transfer of kinetic energy to the target AND its affect of vital organs. The broader the wound channel, the greater impact the transfer of kinetic energy will have on vital organ function. For example, when a bullet strikes a bullet proof vest it's kinetic energy is (hopefully) transferred over a broad surface. While the bullet may not penetrate, the energy is still transferred to the individual wearing the vest and can, if there's enough of it, cause internal organ damage.
    The following are, admittedly, generalizations. But they can help provide an understanding of Energy vs Energy Transfer.
    Small bullets at high velocity carry a lot of kinetic energy but their cross sectional density isn't sufficient to prevent them from traveling through the target without transfering that energy to the target. If a small bullets happens to strike a vital organ it can be effective. Generally, however, it is a poor choice for anything other than ground squirrels or similar game. Large caliber bullets, carrying less kinetic energy, have a broader cross section density so they tend to remain in the target and therefore transfer more of their energy (albeit less total energy than the smaller bullet) to the target. That makes them more suitable for hunting large game.
    That said, the transfer of energy is not sufficient in and of itself. Unless that energy is transferred to a vital organ (artery, heart, etc.) the targeted animal will remain active until sufficient bleed out occurs or until the shock of it's transferred energy has enough cumulative impact on vital organs to render it unable to function.
    Now there's a mouthful of 5 dollar words! Well said!
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      #12  
    Unread 05-01-2014, 01:01 AM
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    Re: Energy vs. Energy Transfer

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gohring3006 View Post
    energy transfer is dictated by bullet design velocity and mass.if I take a 308cal. 180gr. Bullet and fire it at 2700 fps and take that same bullet and fire it at 3300fps it energy transfer will be different at different velocities read about John noseler experience on a moose and why he invented the partition. Bullet weight retention and velocity will dictate transfer
    I need to find this article. Sounds interesting how he came up with it. I do agree with FearNoWind regarding sectional density though. It would be neat to study the same grain weight bullet traveling at the same speed yet with a different diameter. For instance, a 200 gr .308 and a 200 gr .338 or even a 7mm vs .308. If all are equal except for diameter, it would stand to reason that the larger the diameter the larger the wound cavity one would think.
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      #13  
    Unread 05-01-2014, 07:45 AM
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    Re: Energy vs. Energy Transfer

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hawk4974 View Post
    I need to find this article. Sounds interesting how he came up with it. I do agree with FearNoWind regarding sectional density though. It would be neat to study the same grain weight bullet traveling at the same speed yet with a different diameter. For instance, a 200 gr .308 and a 200 gr .338 or even a 7mm vs .308. If all are equal except for diameter, it would stand to reason that the larger the diameter the larger the wound cavity one would think.
    yes I agree but tearing a bigger hole in something has nothing to do with energy transfer I think a 338lapua full metal jacket will put a 338 hole in a animal an keep going some of its energy is transfered in the target a 30 cal partition will dumps all of its energy with out exiting two different energy transfers
    __________________
    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not" Thomas Jefferson.

    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

    Guns have only two enemies, rust and politicians

    Know Guns,know peace,know safety.no guns,no peace,no safety...

    The second amendment is in place incase the politicians ignore the others


    Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

    For those who trade liberty for security have neither Benjamin Franklin...
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      #14  
    Unread 05-01-2014, 12:16 PM
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    Re: Energy vs. Energy Transfer

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gohring3006 View Post
    yes I agree but tearing a bigger hole in something has nothing to do with energy transfer I think a 338lapua full metal jacket will put a 338 hole in a animal an keep going some of its energy is transfered in the target a 30 cal partition will dumps all of its energy with out exiting two different energy transfers
    It has to have SOMETHING to do with energy transfer because it has a larger area for resistance. Again, if bullet design, grain weight, and velocity are equal between calibers, the larger the surface area of the bullet the quicker the transfer of it's energy. My brother in law could probably help me with this experiment. We obviously couldn't compare a 250gr .338 Lapua FMJ to a 110gr .308 hollow point. It would probably easier to test if you used a 30-06 and a 338-06 to compare transfer. That way one might be able to attain the same velocities using the same type of bullet and grain weight. Hypothetically a 200 Gr Partition in .308 and .338. You's have to chrono both rounds to make sure the velocities are the same on then hit some gel with it to view penetration depth and cavity size.
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