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Elk rifle

 
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  #15  
Old 12-16-2010, 06:09 PM
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Location: Southern, Indiana
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Re: Elk rifle

Why not a 7/08 or .308 with turrets and Barnes TSX's?

Less recoil, less muzzle blast and still gets the job done without hurting your shoulder.
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  #16  
Old 12-17-2010, 09:06 AM
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Re: Elk rifle

Thats kind of where my thoughts are going now, even to something smaller. I just know I have a tendency to "yank" it when I think I'm going to get hit with some recoil.
Tom, and Longtimelongranger, I can see that anytime you go up in caliber and energy it would kill better but would you notice it in this range of calibers? A lot of people say they do and a lot say they don't. To me, in the range of calibers we shoot I can't see that you would really notice it. What I mean is, if you had a 22-243, a .50 and like a 20 mm cannon, sure I think you would notice a higher incidence of bang flops as you move up in those 3 calibers if you were to shoot a 100 animals right in the same spot. It just seems to me that in the range of 7mm, 30 cal, 338 that same test would not show as strong of a correlation with increasing caliber. I may be wrong but that would be a great test if we had the time and permits to go shoot a few hundred elk with a video camera!

Here I am saying all of this and the only live elk I've ever seen was driving through Colorado... So I do still respect your opinions

I'm thinking of this on the scale of whitetail that I've shot. From a 22-243(that was mildly loaded just because I had no time to do load development before hunting) to 25-06, 308, 7mm ultra, 280, I still don't see a strong tendency to bang flop. And in fact I think the fastest I've ever seen a deer drop was with the 22-243. I threw together a load that was only hitting about 1000lbs at 100 yards and shot one around 150 that just buckled. Just a heart shot too
Others with exits the size of baseballs out of the vitals ran 100 yards sometimes

Last edited by arthurj; 12-17-2010 at 09:18 AM.
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  #17  
Old 12-17-2010, 10:10 AM
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Re: Elk rifle

Quote:
Originally Posted by arthurj View Post
I can see that anytime you go up in caliber and energy it would kill better but would you notice it in this range of calibers?
I dont think so.
The 2 most important aspects of of killing critters, and waaaay more important than the cartridge shooting it is the bullet and where you put it all else is fluff.
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  #18  
Old 12-17-2010, 10:22 AM
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Re: Elk rifle

I agree with that Tom
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  #19  
Old 12-17-2010, 10:40 AM
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Re: Elk rifle

Unfortunately people think that they should be able to achieve bang flops. It simply is not reality. Sometimes it happens, (and it is cool) but it is not the norm.

I know that the original post is asking only about caliber, but key to this discussion is bullet choice. No matter what caliber you choose, it must be coupled with a quality dedicated hunting bullet. If you run without a good bullet you might as well be ******* into the wind.

I stand in the crowd of a high weight retention bullet that will carry through the target. It must be a bullet that will have consistent frontal deformation. More important than double caliber mushroom is the shape of the deformation. A square frontal area, or flat leading edge will cause the most (largest) permanent wound channel.

Once you have chosen your bullet, then you must limit your effective range to the minimum velocity that the bullet is functional.

Now, with that said, I do not believe that there is such a thing as being over gunned. Bigger is better if you can handle it. My son has shot an elk in each of his first three years of hunting. He is 14 this year, and still carrying the same rifle that he started with at 12. And it is not a .50 BMG. He shoots a 6.5-06 with a high quality, dedicated hunting bullet. All of his elk were taken beyond 300yrds out to 375yrds. All of these elk went less than 20yrds. His first elk at 375yrds was hit in the large shoulder bone on the on side, took out the front of the lungs, went through the big shoulder bone on the off side, and recovered in the meat of the off side shoulder. 82% weight retention, perfect mushroom.

I will just say that you need to put as much or more effort into choosing your bullet as you do into choosing your caliber.

Hope I helped more than adding confusion.

Steve
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  #20  
Old 12-17-2010, 10:50 AM
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Re: Elk rifle

Steve,
Thank you. I have actually been moving toward better bullet choices for whitetail these days. I do agree that bullet choice has as much to do with it as anything.
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  #21  
Old 12-17-2010, 10:57 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 223
Re: Elk rifle

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMtnMT View Post
Unfortunately people think that they should be able to achieve bang flops. It simply is not reality. Sometimes it happens, (and it is cool) but it is not the norm.

I know that the original post is asking only about caliber, but key to this discussion is bullet choice. No matter what caliber you choose, it must be coupled with a quality dedicated hunting bullet. If you run without a good bullet you might as well be ******* into the wind.

I stand in the crowd of a high weight retention bullet that will carry through the target. It must be a bullet that will have consistent frontal deformation. More important than double caliber mushroom is the shape of the deformation. A square frontal area, or flat leading edge will cause the most (largest) permanent wound channel.

Once you have chosen your bullet, then you must limit your effective range to the minimum velocity that the bullet is functional.

Now, with that said, I do not believe that there is such a thing as being over gunned. Bigger is better if you can handle it. My son has shot an elk in each of his first three years of hunting. He is 14 this year, and still carrying the same rifle that he started with at 12. And it is not a .50 BMG. He shoots a 6.5-06 with a high quality, dedicated hunting bullet. All of his elk were taken beyond 300yrds out to 375yrds. All of these elk went less than 20yrds. His first elk at 375yrds was hit in the large shoulder bone on the on side, took out the front of the lungs, went through the big shoulder bone on the off side, and recovered in the meat of the off side shoulder. 82% weight retention, perfect mushroom.

I will just say that you need to put as much or more effort into choosing your bullet as you do into choosing your caliber.

Hope I helped more than adding confusion.

Steve

Good post Steve. You're exactly right, bang-flops are not the norm. For me, the norm for elk is for the critter to soak up a shot or two, run 15 to 40 yards, wobble and fall over. My 338's and 7mm's both seem to generate this effect unless I spine or shoulder shoot (sometimes even when I shoulder shoot). That's why I pack my 7WSM more than my 338WM when elk hunting. However, I totally agree with you that for elk, bigger is better to a point and if I'm going to be hunting mostly thick cover with small chance for long range, I carry my 338WM.
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