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Looking for a good 400yd 270 whitetail deer bullet

 
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  #29  
Old 03-21-2014, 06:13 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 5
Re: Looking for a good 400yd 270 whitetail deer bullet

140 Nosler Accubond, it will open up at 400 and not blow up at 40. It is a do everything bullet for the 270.
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  #30  
Old 03-22-2014, 08:33 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: The Dam, WI.
Posts: 55
Re: Looking for a good 400yd 270 whitetail deer bullet

I went looking for bullets and settled on 140 gr. Nosler ballistic tips, and 130 gr. Speer boat tail soft points. I didn't have much of a selection and bought the last boxes. I'll find a load for each and try them both next fall, thanks for everyone's advice.
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  #31  
Old 03-26-2014, 02:25 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 161
Re: Looking for a good 400yd 270 whitetail deer bullet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topgun 30-06 View Post
Say what?!
The bullet carries energy in several forms
- just from velocity E = 1/2 MV x V
- Rotational energy from spinning - I won't write the formula

There are several ways that an animal dies from being shot in the chest:
- Bleeding to death from severing an artery or vein (thing bow hunting or similar bullet damage)
- Energy "shock", similar to being beaten with a really big baseball bat

If your shot is very carefully placed, then the animal will bleed to death no matter what, but it might take a while.

If the bullet goes all the way through, that makes two holes instead of one, so bleeding is faster, and likely there is more internal damage. At the same time, the remaining energy of the bullet was "wasted", as it didn't provide any "shock" effect. Sometimes this matters, some times it doesn't.

If the bullet "expands", this is an indication that the bullet transferred some of the velocity energy it contained to the "shock" aspect. If a bullet is too hard for the application, then it will not expand at lower velocities. Depending on what the bullet hits inside, the rotational energy still may or may not be transferred efficiently.

At 400 yards, a 270 shooting a 130 grain bullet has slowed down considerably compared to its 200 yard velocity. The hornady web site shows their projected velocities at various distances, so this can provide an "indicator" of whether or not a specific setup will work or not for proper expansion.

A lot of bullets on the market will not fully expand if the velocity is under 2 000 FPS. Some Barnes solids (example dangerous game versions ) are designed to hardly expand at all.

CEP (and some others out there) are designed so that the nose breaks up into little cutters (causing both bleeding and shock energy transfer) while the bullet base continues on for the exit wound. The cutters breaking off and continuing with their own damage is one method to improve transfer of the rotational energy to the animal as "shock".

CEP claims (and I have not verified this) that their Raptor ER bullets will expand / break into those cutters at 1 500 - 1 600 FPS rather than the 2 000 FPS a normal bullet needs to expand, and the improve BC will help reduce velocity loss at long distances than a normal RN bullet. At 400 yards, this might make a difference.

Matrix uses the same concept, just in a lead core version.

If you think about this, it is no different than any other bullet selection discussion, longer range shots need more care put into bullet BC and expansion than short range shots.
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  #32  
Old 03-26-2014, 02:28 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 161
Re: Looking for a good 400yd 270 whitetail deer bullet

Clark - if you want, I am thinking about buying the CEB 270 Raptor ER. If you want, I will split a box with you.
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  #33  
Old 03-26-2014, 06:50 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 1,195
Re: Looking for a good 400yd 270 whitetail deer bullet

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryN View Post
The bullet carries energy in several forms
- just from velocity E = 1/2 MV x V
- Rotational energy from spinning - I won't write the formula

There are several ways that an animal dies from being shot in the chest:
- Bleeding to death from severing an artery or vein (thing bow hunting or similar bullet damage)
- Energy "shock", similar to being beaten with a really big baseball bat

If your shot is very carefully placed, then the animal will bleed to death no matter what, but it might take a while.

If the bullet goes all the way through, that makes two holes instead of one, so bleeding is faster, and likely there is more internal damage. At the same time, the remaining energy of the bullet was "wasted", as it didn't provide any "shock" effect. Sometimes this matters, some times it doesn't.

If the bullet "expands", this is an indication that the bullet transferred some of the velocity energy it contained to the "shock" aspect. If a bullet is too hard for the application, then it will not expand at lower velocities. Depending on what the bullet hits inside, the rotational energy still may or may not be transferred efficiently.

At 400 yards, a 270 shooting a 130 grain bullet has slowed down considerably compared to its 200 yard velocity. The hornady web site shows their projected velocities at various distances, so this can provide an "indicator" of whether or not a specific setup will work or not for proper expansion.

A lot of bullets on the market will not fully expand if the velocity is under 2 000 FPS. Some Barnes solids (example dangerous game versions ) are designed to hardly expand at all.

CEP (and some others out there) are designed so that the nose breaks up into little cutters (causing both bleeding and shock energy transfer) while the bullet base continues on for the exit wound. The cutters breaking off and continuing with their own damage is one method to improve transfer of the rotational energy to the animal as "shock".

CEP claims (and I have not verified this) that their Raptor ER bullets will expand / break into those cutters at 1 500 - 1 600 FPS rather than the 2 000 FPS a normal bullet needs to expand, and the improve BC will help reduce velocity loss at long distances than a normal RN bullet. At 400 yards, this might make a difference.

Matrix uses the same concept, just in a lead core version.

If you think about this, it is no different than any other bullet selection discussion, longer range shots need more care put into bullet BC and expansion than short range shots.
Thanks for that great dissertation that I had no idea about after hunting/shooting for over 60 years, LOL! (Sarcasm intended!) You stated: "If the bullet goes all the way through, that makes two holes instead of one, so bleeding is faster, and likely there is more internal damage. I'll call balogna on that last phrase every day compared to a bullet that properly expands, but doesn't quite exit. IMHO the prefect bullet would expand perfectly at any distance and just barely break the skin on the opposite side of the animal before falling out. Designing a bullet that will do that at all distances is basicly impossible, but that scenario would impart maximum energy and yet leave two holes for better bleedout. However, my "Say what" had to do with your DRT sentence, which is pure balogna! You said if the animal didn't drop right where it's hit it indicates the bullet didn't impart it's energy properly and I'll call balogna on that every day of the week! How many years have you hunted and how many big game animals have you shot through the vitals (rib area) where the animal went down without taking a step as compared to a short run before it went to the great kingdom in the sky? Be honest!
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  #34  
Old 03-27-2014, 07:34 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 161
Re: Looking for a good 400yd 270 whitetail deer bullet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topgun 30-06 View Post
Thanks for that great dissertation that I had no idea about after hunting/shooting for over 60 years, LOL! (Sarcasm intended!) You stated: "If the bullet goes all the way through, that makes two holes instead of one, so bleeding is faster, and likely there is more internal damage. I'll call balogna on that last phrase every day compared to a bullet that properly expands, but doesn't quite exit. IMHO the prefect bullet would expand perfectly at any distance and just barely break the skin on the opposite side of the animal before falling out. Designing a bullet that will do that at all distances is basicly impossible, but that scenario would impart maximum energy and yet leave two holes for better bleedout. However, my "Say what" had to do with your DRT sentence, which is pure balogna! You said if the animal didn't drop right where it's hit it indicates the bullet didn't impart it's energy properly and I'll call balogna on that every day of the week! How many years have you hunted and how many big game animals have you shot through the vitals (rib area) where the animal went down without taking a step as compared to a short run before it went to the great kingdom in the sky? Be honest!
You are right, my experience in this area has been much less than perfect, which is why I am spending a lot of time reading this forum and about rifle / bullet / ballistic / changing caliber / shot placement details.

Sorry for getting carried away with that comment, if I could edit it, I would.

There are some really good bullets and ammo setups out there. It would be nice if mfg's would put more ballistic info about their products / application out there and how they work, but it all takes time to figure out. Then, after spending the time to figure out an interesting ammo, just finding it can be challenging.

My shot placement is also much less than perfect, probably at least 50% certainly my fault, so I am trying to improve what happens when my shots don't go so well, and how to achieve better shot placement. I have never shot anything at 400 yards if that tells you anything. Would I like to build up to that experience - yes, but I am not sure that I can afford financially and time wise to do both improved short range and long range hunting.

My goal is to move from smaller game hunting to wild boar / black bear hunting and frankly I am a bit nervous about what happens when things don't go well in that situation. The shots are relatively close and the risk is higher than other game I have gone after. Most likely, I would have family / friends with me, so minimizing risk is important.

So for that application, yes I am really studying what it takes for as closely as possible a DRT (or nearly so) and yet able to use at the range without developing a bad flinch. Balancing "enough gun", "rebuilt shoulder", "CA laws", "money", "time to practice" and "what gun / ammo / reloading supplies that can actually be purchased when needed" makes for an interesting challenge even before going hunting.
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