Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Regional Forums > West

West MT, CO, WY, NM, NV, UT, CA, ID, WA, OR, AZ, HI, AK


Reply

Montana corner crossing law hb235

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #50  
Old 02-25-2013, 09:46 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
Posts: 5,954
Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

Agree with Jeff. Corner jumping is not the way to solve the problem. It is a PITA for both sides of the subject and will only lead to hard feelings. We need to work for better solutions on a case by case basis. It will take time but it will be worth it in the end.
__________________
- Mark

You will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you make good use of it.
~ John Quincy Adams
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:02 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 410
Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

I am fine with how it is. But I do think the way our hunting is going and ranches are selling off the rights for hunting for profit will reach a changing point. More public lands should have more grazing restrictions on them. Public lands need to be made sure there is adequate feed on them for wildlife to survive without having to go to ranchers hayfields to live. Livestock should not be on them during hunting seasons. I also think a deciding factor should be if the corners of question are used and drove on by a rancher at anytime during the year. It should be a public land that we could cross corners on. I really think the days of not ******* off the rancher and kiss butts is over. And that it will soon be times of them locking up their ranches for private gain while locking us off of public lands reach a turning point. I think the ranchers will start seeing a pinch on restrictions of length of time they graze public lands. And also on state lands I think they will be restricted to foot or horse back travel as well. I have seen many times where ranchers are hunting state land but "checking water tanks". This is the main reason I pack a camera to document this stuff. Might not be nothing now but at some point it becomes a lot of ammunition.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:43 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Townsend, Montana.
Posts: 7,734
Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

Quote:
Originally Posted by huntthedistance View Post
. I also think a deciding factor should be if the corners of question are used and drove on by a rancher at anytime during the year. It should be a public land that we could cross corners on..
With this in mind we should remember a few things. Two of the four corners are owned by the private property owners. The other two he can be on ( legal use of foot , horse or what ever is legal) so the corner location is irrelevant to the private property owner. He is part of the public too and can legally be on all of it because his private property allows legal access.

As far as driving on it, that should be done in a legal manner and there are laws for this already. If you see anyone breaking the laws you should prosecute.

As far as servicing water tanks. Lets not forget he pays around $16 per pair per month for the lease to graze. If their is 300 pair that equals $4800 per month. That is paid whether he uses it or not in the grazing season that the state, BLM or whoever sets forth and he can be fined if he does not comply with the dates. He is also told how many head he can run and by the authorities and that is what he pays even if his herd is down in count.

The property owner pays for all of his use of any public lands. But HB235 states he should just give up the use of his private property for free. How does that compute?

Jeff
__________________

Last edited by Broz; 02-25-2013 at 12:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 02-25-2013, 01:17 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 410
Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

I am not saying that the rancher is not paying to use this ground. I just think that things should become more regulated in favor of the majority and not minority.

Such as wildlife can survive off any public lands and not have to rely on hayfields. Which means adequate feed left on public lands for them to survive if the wish to live there. If the law states "no motorized travel" then that means none. If there is a reason for traveling to go repair "water tanks" a permit should need to be picked up for day use.

I also was told by a rancher we could not hunt state land by winnette because he has cattle on there. This needs to be clarified, and hunters are also leasing that ground from about atleast september 1st to the 1st of december. We expect not to be harassed while using our ground at that time.

The corner crossing will have to be dealt with. Just the fact that one judge threw a case out was great in my eyes. And then the fact that ranchers are still allowed to drive on state lands is a black eye for them, I know of ranchers that hunt state lands while checking water tanks. I was told straight up from them. I know the same happens when family kills something out there, they happen to be driving by and retrieve game as well.

I agree with you broz it might not be the answer. But is just the begining of the check and balances that need to take place.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 02-25-2013, 01:47 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Townsend, Montana.
Posts: 7,734
Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

I hear what you are saying. I am not opposed to public use of public land, I hunt too. But the method of access needs to be fair to both. Also I see both sides of this as well. I have used the private access I work on to retrieve many wounded animals that were shot on public lands that border the private ranch. 3 deer and two elk this past season. If they call before they trespass I help them, all we ask is do it lawfully and stay off the private. Call first if you have a need to go on private, we will help you. One bull this year was in the bottom of a deep ditch now on private land. I winched it out with my truck, loaded it in my truck and hauled the two hunters and their bull right to their truck where we slid it in the back. Saved them a days work. It would have been much easier if I would have drove on the public land, but I didn't. I used our private land only. We also gave the go ahead to get out a hunter with a broken ankle, we were glad to and so should every other private property owner in an emergency. My point is, there is going to be many instances where wounded game make it on to the private land from public where it was shot. Hunter / Landowner relations are very important here. The land owner that is upset does not have to allow retrieval of game that comes to rest on private. Nor does he have to allow the following of a blood trail onto his private ground. But if you ask first most will.

Jeff
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 02-25-2013, 02:31 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
Posts: 5,954
Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntthedistance View Post
I am fine with how it is. But I do think the way our hunting is going and ranches are selling off the rights for hunting for profit will reach a changing point. More public lands should have more grazing restrictions on them. Public lands need to be made sure there is adequate feed on them for wildlife to survive without having to go to ranchers hayfields to live. Livestock should not be on them during hunting seasons. I also think a deciding factor should be if the corners of question are used and drove on by a rancher at anytime during the year. It should be a public land that we could cross corners on. I really think the days of not ******* off the rancher and kiss butts is over. And that it will soon be times of them locking up their ranches for private gain while locking us off of public lands reach a turning point. I think the ranchers will start seeing a pinch on restrictions of length of time they graze public lands. And also on state lands I think they will be restricted to foot or horse back travel as well. I have seen many times where ranchers are hunting state land but "checking water tanks". This is the main reason I pack a camera to document this stuff. Might not be nothing now but at some point it becomes a lot of ammunition.
Something to keep in mind is that ranchers and farmers open up about 8,000,000 acres of land through block management. The land being sought through corner crossing is about 800,000 about 1/10th of block management land. Much of that 800,000 acres is unaccessable via corners because of natural physical obstructions. And a lot of otherwise landlocked public land is also currently opened up through block management. Hope you're getting the picture here. Telling the ranchers and farmers to stick it will not be beneficial I assure you. Most of my business is with farmers and ranchers and the overwhelming majority of them are real descent folks. They've also got their issues with slob hunters, etc.

I also have had the frustration of a rancher turning loose his herd into USFS public grazing land a few days before the general season started. Took leave from work, drove 5 hours with my buddies to a spot that I scouted during archery, and found all the elk had been chased out by the cows. Pretty much blew the entire costly trip. So I agree, something needs to be worked out there. And I also agree, that if landowners are profiting from elk, deer, etc., they should be required to open up a pertcentage of their land for hunting so Montana residents can share the resource. Too many residents sucking hind tit to out-of-staters paying for the prime hunting. i.e., $15,000 per bull hunt (not even guaranteed) on Turner's ranchers, who has a whole lot of public land tied up and profiting off of it. He isn't even a resident. Something definitely not right there.

Bottom line is that these issues all need to be worked out with some thought and the best possible outcome for everyone involved and corner jumping ain't it. I would much rather have easy access to public land than to have to hop a corner at a time and try to heave my game back over the corners and be on good terms with the locals. It just makes life a whole lot easier and enjoyable.
__________________
- Mark

You will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you make good use of it.
~ John Quincy Adams
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 02-25-2013, 02:40 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 410
Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

I lived both sides of the fence as well. But it just seems to me there are more cases of the rancher not allowing any retrieval on wounded game. I know down by clark canyon we were hunting elk. Tried really hard to shoot this one big 6 with a club and freak points on the other side. My brother stuck him about 250 yards on public. He went down and died in the open on private. Drove to and asked the rancher and he said we had to ask the outfitter. Only to find out it was the same bull they wanted. And the answer was no, you cant retrieve him. Contacted the game warden he talked with the guy and the answer was still no. Went back later the head was gone and the game warden did not have him. Nor was it investigated either.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Current Poll
Do You Shoot Rifle Competition?
YES - 33.67%
759 Votes
NO - 66.33%
1,495 Vote
Total Votes: 2,254
You may not vote on this poll.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC