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Montana corner crossing law hb235

 
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  #43  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:59 PM
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Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broz View Post
Eminent Domain, against Montana's leading and largest industry..

Yeah, that's going to fly. Heck, lets just take all their land and open it to hunting only. Lets take all their guns too. And this coming from the group of people that are against assault weapons ban, fighting to keep our freedoms. But it's ok to take freedoms as long as they are not yours.

Well I think it is time for me to read a different thread for a while.

Jeff
That will never happen here, not for this subject
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  #44  
Old 02-12-2013, 11:40 AM
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Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

Guys, I have talked with legislator Kelly Flynn about this and he has introduced HB404. It is a step in the right direction and a fair way to resolve some of the problems.

I think line 18 is what needs to be done and a good way to address some of the issues with legal access.

You should look this bill over and get behind it with your efforts if you find it to your liking.

Jeff

Below is a PDF of HB404

http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2013/billpdf/HB0404.pdf




..
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  #45  
Old 02-12-2013, 05:14 PM
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Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

That does look like a good step in the right direction. I'll support it.
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  #46  
Old 02-25-2013, 01:20 AM
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Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

Seen this article in the montana standard news paper and thought it would fit with this older thread.





Corner crossing is not taking of private landowner property



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2013-02-24T00:00:00ZCorner crossing is not taking of private landowner propertyMontana Standard
23 hours ago
(0) Comments


The Feb. 4 guest editorial by Chuck Denowh on corner crossing presented many inaccuracies.
Corner crossings do not constitute the taking of private property. Denowh mentions Montana ethics on private lands, but was silent on public lands. He mentions a U.S. Supreme Court ruling, but it doesn’t exist and no case number was mentioned. Nor does it exist in the state statutes. There is also no Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks statute or regulation on corner crossing.
There is, however, a Supreme Court ruling in Camfield v. United States which defines the Unlawful Enclosures Act of 1885 (43 U.S.C. 1061-1064) and the interference of obstructing access from private lands to public lands. The act, which is supreme over state law, states that “free passage of man or animal from place to place on the public domain.”
We believe the U.S. Tenth Circuit Court ruling also applies to public access for lawful purposes as defined in the UEA. This ruling involved the Bureau of Land Management and state lands, and the UEA of 1885 needs to be considered in the corner crossing issue today.
Moreover, the federal Taylor Grazing Act reinforces the UEA’s mandate that access to public lands be preserved: “Nothing contained in this subchapter shall restrict the ingress and regress over public lands for all proper and lawful purposes.” (43 CFR U.S.C. 315e.)
Corner crossing does not create a nuisance, injury or economic impact to private property. The corners are public property. The public already has the right to use public land and the UEA forbids the obstruction of access to and on public lands. A private landowner cannot prevent access to and on public land as defined in the UEA for both wild animals and man. We recognize many Montana landowners cooperate fully in the landowner-sportsmen issue.
A recent case near Anaconda involved corner crossing for hunting by local residents on public state lands. After harvesting two bull elk, they were confronted by the Rock Creek Cattle Co. and FWP warden. The warden issued citations and confiscated the elk.
The evidence proved otherwise in court. The hunters used Google Earth and GPS to verify their location and the location of corner markers. The judge dismissed all charges after viewing the evidence. The warden acted without cause and no regulation or statute on corner crossing.
But when did it become illegal to use state land for lawful purposes? The hunters were never compensated for loss of the two bull elk and no formal apology.
The issue of public land access for lawful purposes and enjoyment and the use of public lands, federal and state, will not go away. As public land access becomes more difficult and the value of wildlife increases, the use of corner crossing becomes more important to be pursued in the legal arena and application of the UEA of 1885.
Jack Jones
3014 Irene St.
Butte
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  #47  
Old 02-25-2013, 01:22 AM
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Posts: 424
Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

Question of the week


Here is the question of the week in the montana standard. It is asking if you think crossing corners is trespassing. As of right now 63% say no. Vote if you agree you never know how the poll may be used.
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  #48  
Old 02-25-2013, 08:49 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 162
Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

very interesting info here, 1st case i have heard of that was thrown out of court,
I wonder what the sponsors of the Bill say about this article,,,,














Quote:
Originally Posted by huntthedistance View Post
Seen this article in the montana standard news paper and thought it would fit with this older thread.





Corner crossing is not taking of private landowner property



1


PrintEmail



2013-02-24T00:00:00ZCorner crossing is not taking of private landowner propertyMontana Standard
23 hours ago
(0) Comments


The Feb. 4 guest editorial by Chuck Denowh on corner crossing presented many inaccuracies.
Corner crossings do not constitute the taking of private property. Denowh mentions Montana ethics on private lands, but was silent on public lands. He mentions a U.S. Supreme Court ruling, but it doesn’t exist and no case number was mentioned. Nor does it exist in the state statutes. There is also no Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks statute or regulation on corner crossing.
There is, however, a Supreme Court ruling in Camfield v. United States which defines the Unlawful Enclosures Act of 1885 (43 U.S.C. 1061-1064) and the interference of obstructing access from private lands to public lands. The act, which is supreme over state law, states that “free passage of man or animal from place to place on the public domain.”
We believe the U.S. Tenth Circuit Court ruling also applies to public access for lawful purposes as defined in the UEA. This ruling involved the Bureau of Land Management and state lands, and the UEA of 1885 needs to be considered in the corner crossing issue today.
Moreover, the federal Taylor Grazing Act reinforces the UEA’s mandate that access to public lands be preserved: “Nothing contained in this subchapter shall restrict the ingress and regress over public lands for all proper and lawful purposes.” (43 CFR U.S.C. 315e.)
Corner crossing does not create a nuisance, injury or economic impact to private property. The corners are public property. The public already has the right to use public land and the UEA forbids the obstruction of access to and on public lands. A private landowner cannot prevent access to and on public land as defined in the UEA for both wild animals and man. We recognize many Montana landowners cooperate fully in the landowner-sportsmen issue.
A recent case near Anaconda involved corner crossing for hunting by local residents on public state lands. After harvesting two bull elk, they were confronted by the Rock Creek Cattle Co. and FWP warden. The warden issued citations and confiscated the elk.
The evidence proved otherwise in court. The hunters used Google Earth and GPS to verify their location and the location of corner markers. The judge dismissed all charges after viewing the evidence. The warden acted without cause and no regulation or statute on corner crossing.
But when did it become illegal to use state land for lawful purposes? The hunters were never compensated for loss of the two bull elk and no formal apology.
The issue of public land access for lawful purposes and enjoyment and the use of public lands, federal and state, will not go away. As public land access becomes more difficult and the value of wildlife increases, the use of corner crossing becomes more important to be pursued in the legal arena and application of the UEA of 1885.
Jack Jones
3014 Irene St.
Butte
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  #49  
Old 02-25-2013, 09:35 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Townsend, Montana.
Posts: 7,761
Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

That editorial was written Feb 4th. That was before the last Vote where HB235 was shot down and it didn't change a thing.

The last line of the 5th amendment of our constitution reads.

"nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation"

If the public is walking on private land, and they will be, it is trespass. I heard the speech of the supporting representative of the bill HB235. She stated in no uncertain terms that what she wanted was to "Decriminalize the Act" of the trespass at the corners. In simple words to make trespass on private land legal.

Plus please don't forget the fact that a large percentage of these corners are not marked. A good GPS will only get you close ( 10' to 20') so the amount of trespass will larger than if they were surveyed. It needs to be surveyed. Then there is the problem of getting game out. How will that be done? By again "jumping in air space" at the exact corner points that are not marked with an elk on your back? The private property owner has every right to prosecute and the majority of them are so upset with what has been tried here, I am betting they will. It was shot down twice in the last few weeks for a reason. First in the committee and then by the legislators when the sponsor tried to blast it out of committee.

This is no different than if you owned a lot in town and someone told you you had to let the public cross the corner of your private property to get to a park or something. If they are walking on your private land it is indeed a "take"

There are better bills in progress now. HB404 has made it through one vote and is going forward. Driving wedges between private land owners and sportsmen and women is never good. That is what HB235 was doing. If the private property owners start taking land from the Block Management programs like they did with the brain storm HB161 more public access property will be lost and even more of the landlocked public lands will be unaccessible. There are many areas of public land that is accessed through Block Management land. HB404 will increase this and all will be happy. HB235 is wrong and only sets things up for trouble and law suits.

Jeff
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