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Montana corner crossing law hb235

 
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  #29  
Old 01-31-2013, 12:35 AM
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Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

Can a property owner close the ONLY road off that crosses his property and is the only access to public or pvt land that has no other access? I don't think so in this exact case I mentioned. What say you?
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  #30  
Old 01-31-2013, 12:45 AM
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Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

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Originally Posted by T3-OleMan View Post
Can a property owner close the ONLY road off that crosses his property and is the only access to public or pvt land that has no other access? I don't think so in this exact case I mentioned. What say you?
There are no roads to lands in question here. That's why the issue of being able to step by foot from one corner to another is the question.

Imagine a checker board. Black land squares are public and white land squares are private. The squares are typically 1 mile square (1 section). There are no roads.
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  #31  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:58 AM
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Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

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Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
There are no roads to lands in question here. That's why the issue of being able to step by foot from one corner to another is the question.

Imagine a checker board. Black land squares are public and white land squares are private. The squares are typically 1 mile square (1 section). There are no roads.
You did a much better job of explaining in simple terms what this bill involves than I did.

As a landowner and a sportsman I see both sides of this. I like Bigngreen's examples because I've been there, done that from a Sportsman's side. Also have the same opinion on eminent domain - have had to fight that one too.

This bill would have opened over 1 million acres to the public though that are now some personal property owners personal play grounds.

Best example is, take a look at the Crazies Mtn on a map. Solid checkerboard and there is minimal fences and half way up there are no fences. I don't think the outfitter or landowner wants any of that public ground opened up no matter how you do it, why would they.
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  #32  
Old 01-31-2013, 09:36 AM
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Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

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Originally Posted by T3-OleMan View Post
Can a property owner close the ONLY road off that crosses his property and is the only access to public or pvt land that has no other access? I don't think so in this exact case I mentioned. What say you?
No they do not have to give access to public ground, the only way that I know of to keep an access open is if the public through and agency like BLM or NF has put money into a road, we lost a lot of access last year and in talking to the agencies that was the only leverage they had.
The other leverage that there is that would take state law changes is tying public access to grazing permit cost or making an equal access law where the land owner could only access the public ground by the same means that the public could.
While I like the idea of the corner jumping and it would open up a bunch of stuff for me I know dang good and well there would be a 4 wheeler trail and cut fence at every corner because of the lack of respect so many have of private property these days.
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  #33  
Old 01-31-2013, 09:59 AM
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Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

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Originally Posted by bigngreen View Post
While I like the idea of the corner jumping and it would open up a bunch of stuff for me I know dang good and well there would be a 4 wheeler trail and cut fence at every corner because of the lack of respect so many have of private property these days.
I think we are back to the bill that was just turned down. The problem with corner jumping is. First lets clarify , 4 corners come together, two tips touch that are public, but the other two tips are private. The private section we are trying to access is surrounded by private land on all 4 sides. This point comes down to a pin point where we drive a stake. That is not an access point. To remain off the private ground you would have to step across the stake very carefully. There could be no gate to signify entry and a legal survey would need to be done to find the point for the stake. Even a 18" wide foot trail would be encroaching onto the private land. What if there is a tree, large bush, large rock, rock ledge in the path? Then what would the public do? This is why I feel that bill encouraged trespass on private land. Back to that stake in the ground, where the 4 points come together. There is no way to get a deer or elk out by dragging , 4 wheeler, horse, or game cart. All meat would have to be packed and still the fact that this access point would involve people using private ground is real. Now we know many of these corners are NOT marked. So our hand held GPS's is what we would use. They are accurate to within 10 to 20 feet. And I know on mine the arrow covers close to that. So we could at best only get close to the point and would indeed be trespassing. I just don't feel corner jumping would ever be the answer. There needs to be surveys, and trades, purchases or easements obtained for a legal access area. The reason it is called corner jumping is because that is just what it is. You have to jump or take a long step to get across it.

Jeff
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  #34  
Old 01-31-2013, 10:03 AM
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Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

Guys, land locked ground is an age old problem. This is no different than if the land was all private but with two different owners. If the owners don't want to allow access or sell and easement then that the way it is. But in many cases an easement can be purchased. I know not all, but why not work on the ones that can first?

Jeff
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  #35  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:39 AM
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Re: Montana corner crossing law hb235

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Originally Posted by Broz View Post
I see your point. But we shouldn't forget who feeds those animals year round. The reason the game is there is because there is feed.
yep dont forget who feeds many of the cattle and sheep in this world, PUBLIC GROUND

public ground in the west that is not even close to private grazing prices, been here before with the ranchers feed all the animals so they should get all the benefits, if it wasnt for ranchers there wouldnt be any game,,,,

if it werent for public land very cheap grazing system with overinflated aum's so ranchers can run more animals that the range can hold, where would ranchers be today,,
i have spent many years in this fight, family has 3000 mother cows in oregon and idaho at one time or another, if it werent for the public land the family would of never had near the cows or money in there pocket,,

i see many ranchers that would never graze there private ground like they do the public ground,,
i am all for ranchers getting something out of helping the public wildlife, let ranchers have all the tags they want to sell and guide, but make sure those tags are only for there private ground,, lots of big ranches in montana that shouldnt need the public land in any way to make a living on

this public acces has many many sides to the argument, i didnt want to bring up all this extra stuff,
there can be arguments made every which way on this deal,
at some time maybe landowners need to be more proactive about there land, mandatory posting or the land is accesible like Idaho laws,
access on section lines like in north dakota, lately everytime a landowner gets upset first thing is lets get rid of public acces, get out of the block management, lets keep the landlocked gems and use them like they own them,,,
common sense should dictate public use of public land or no use of the public land just let the land sit there an no one benefit,
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