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Is this legal in TX

 
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  #15  
Old 06-03-2009, 11:08 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 276
Re: Is this legal in TX

This is true. If the game warden says it's OK and he's not going to cite you for it go ahead. Everyone is tracking that pigs are a problem and I don't think even the game wardens are going to hinder you getting rid of them. Anyways if they can't hear you shooting nobody is going to come looking for you. And to answere the first question an AR-15 .300 whisper with a suppresor and PS-22 night site and AGOG is an awesome pig rifle.
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  #16  
Old 06-03-2009, 03:18 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,466
Re: Is this legal in TX

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve smith View Post
Under Means and Methods

It specifies that the following is specifically reffering to Game animals. Thus supressors+game animals = illegal, but supressors+anything else = legal.

You must read this like a legal document. When it specifically bars you from a activity it will always specify when and where it is barred, but it is implied that anytime or place other than that listed is OK.

Sometimes you shouldn't look for what's there, but rather for what's missing.
Steve and Buzzgun .

I hear you!!!! but until I can see it in writing in the TPW game book I will not use a
suppressor on any rifle and with out a permit from the A,T,F to possess a suppressor
I will not even have one.

There are references to legal firearms on game animals and then there are references
to legal firearms for Non game (like pellet guns are legal for non game but not for game
animals) and this is stated in both sections. So logic says it should be in the non game
section,but suppressors are not mentioned.

The way you have interpreted the law then you may use a full auto for non game ( I don't
think so).

Game wardens can and do interpret game laws that are vague all the time and then get
over ruled buy a judge ,But this is rare.

Almost all states have some unclear areas in there hunting regs and I have seen more than
once the game wardens interpret different than the hunter .And guess who won.

I can not recommend anything in good conscience that I would not do so until I can
see it in righting I will not assume anything.

I do know that In the state of TEXAS the game warden can and will confiscate any and all
of your hunting equipment including the vehicle . and even if later you are cleared you may
not get all of your belongings back.

So if you want to use a suppressor then by all means do , but to me it is not worth the risk
for a hog.

Just my opinion until someone can show me IN WRITING I will not risk it.

J E CUSTOM
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  #17  
Old 06-03-2009, 06:46 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 244
Re: Is this legal in TX

Quote:
Originally Posted by J E Custom View Post
Steve and Buzzgun .

Game wardens can and do interpret game laws that are vague all the time and then get
over ruled buy a judge ,But this is rare.

I do know that In the state of TEXAS the game warden can and will confiscate any and all
of your hunting equipment including the vehicle . and even if later you are cleared you may
not get all of your belongings back.


J E CUSTOM

You are 100% correct there!

That is where the problem is. Game Wardens (in Texas anyway) can inforce the law how they see fit, especially in areas where things are unclear. Of course this is true of any peace officer anywhere in the US, until there is a precedent set. Then things will get ironed out and things get reworded so as to make it more clear.

After that the person or persons involved may or may not get all of their equipment back, that's upto the judge.

After having a talk with my best friends neighbor, who just happens to be a Game Warden down in your neck of the woods (Brazoria county), (although not on this particular subject) I came to the conclusion that the rules and regs should be read as if you were a lawyer. That when it specificaly prohibits one meathod for game animals then does not even mention it (approve or disapprove) for nongame animals, that implies that it's ok.
The Regs state

"
•Game animals and game birds may be hunted with any legal firearm, EXCEPT:
•white-tailed deer, mule deer, desert bighorn sheep, and pronghorn antelope may NOT be hunted with rimfire ammunition of any caliber.
•shotguns are the only legal firearm that may be used to hunt Eastern turkey during the spring Eastern turkey season (see County Listings). Rifles and handguns may not be used to hunt Eastern turkey.
•pellet guns and other air guns are NOT LEGAL.
•fully automatic firearms are NOT LEGAL.
•firearms equipped with silencers or sound-suppressing devices are NOT LEGAL.
•a shotgun is the only legal firearm for hunting migratory game birds and lesser prairie chicken (see Definitions - Legal Shotgun, pg. 69).
•Nongame Animals (Non-Protected): Any lawful firearm, pellet gun, or other air gun is legal

"


It specificaly states what is and is not legal. The only place something is implied is when you start talking about using full auto or suppressors for non game animal. It states "any lawful firearm", but no-where in the entirety of the regs does it define a lawful firearm. Thus you must fall back to Federal and State laws to define it, and if there is a federal law that prohibits one from using a full-auto or suppressor for hunting purposes.

Having read and re-read the regs I would read it to say (implied)" that any firearm of any make,model and method of function that is legally documented and legally possessed" may be considered a lawful firearm, and thus legal for non-game animals. BUT and a BIG BUT! I would not, nor do I advocate that anyone do this without first checking with the authorities YOURSELF!

This is one of those things where it doesn't really matter for all practical purposes, for I don't own or possess a ful-auto or suppressed firearm. Though this has peaked my interest into the topic. I'll have to ask Joe about this one next time I'm down in West Columbia.

Last edited by steve smith; 06-03-2009 at 06:52 PM.
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  #18  
Old 06-04-2009, 08:27 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,466
Re: Is this legal in TX

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve smith View Post
You are 100% correct there!

That is where the problem is. Game Wardens (in Texas anyway) can inforce the law how they see fit, especially in areas where things are unclear. Of course this is true of any peace officer anywhere in the US, until there is a precedent set. Then things will get ironed out and things get reworded so as to make it more clear.

After that the person or persons involved may or may not get all of their equipment back, that's upto the judge.

After having a talk with my best friends neighbor, who just happens to be a Game Warden down in your neck of the woods (Brazoria county), (although not on this particular subject) I came to the conclusion that the rules and regs should be read as if you were a lawyer. That when it specificaly prohibits one meathod for game animals then does not even mention it (approve or disapprove) for nongame animals, that implies that it's ok.
The Regs state

"
•Game animals and game birds may be hunted with any legal firearm, EXCEPT:
•white-tailed deer, mule deer, desert bighorn sheep, and pronghorn antelope may NOT be hunted with rimfire ammunition of any caliber.
•shotguns are the only legal firearm that may be used to hunt Eastern turkey during the spring Eastern turkey season (see County Listings). Rifles and handguns may not be used to hunt Eastern turkey.
•pellet guns and other air guns are NOT LEGAL.
•fully automatic firearms are NOT LEGAL.
•firearms equipped with silencers or sound-suppressing devices are NOT LEGAL.
•a shotgun is the only legal firearm for hunting migratory game birds and lesser prairie chicken (see Definitions - Legal Shotgun, pg. 69).
•Nongame Animals (Non-Protected): Any lawful firearm, pellet gun, or other air gun is legal

"


It specificaly states what is and is not legal. The only place something is implied is when you start talking about using full auto or suppressors for non game animal. It states "any lawful firearm", but no-where in the entirety of the regs does it define a lawful firearm. Thus you must fall back to Federal and State laws to define it, and if there is a federal law that prohibits one from using a full-auto or suppressor for hunting purposes.

Having read and re-read the regs I would read it to say (implied)" that any firearm of any make,model and method of function that is legally documented and legally possessed" may be considered a lawful firearm, and thus legal for non-game animals. BUT and a BIG BUT! I would not, nor do I advocate that anyone do this without first checking with the authorities YOURSELF!

This is one of those things where it doesn't really matter for all practical purposes, for I don't own or possess a ful-auto or suppressed firearm. Though this has peaked my interest into the topic. I'll have to ask Joe about this one next time I'm down in West Columbia.

Thanks Steve.

Well said !!

That was my point. With the current environment pertaining to fire arms I am taking the
conservative stance on all laws pertaining to hunting and shooting, and I am even hesitant
to ask some questions and risk getting on a watch list by our FINE GOVERNMENT.

I may be paranoid about the laws for gun ownership because it's a minefield and it's just
easier to avoid interpretation of some laws and keep the few rights I have.

I personally have not had any problems with Game Wardens and in fact for the most part
been treated very well because of my self imposed attitude pertaining to game laws .

I hope we didn't scare Eddybo into not coming to Texas to help us out with our hog
problem.

Thanks again.

J E CUSTOM
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  #19  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:58 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ft Worth
Posts: 123
Re: Is this legal in TX

Here is a recent email on this subject. I plan to print off and carry it with my stamp.

Eric,

From Texas Administrative Code, which contains the proclamations adopted by the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department Commission:

§65.11. Lawful Means.
It is unlawful to hunt any of the wildlife resources of this state except by the means authorized by this section and as provided in §65.19 of this title (relating to Hunting Deer with Dogs).
(1) Firearms.
(A) It is lawful to hunt alligators, game animals, and game birds with any legal firearm, including muzzleloading weapons, except as specifically restricted in this section.
(B) Special muzzleloader-only deer seasons are restricted to muzzleloading firearms only.
(C) It is unlawful to use rimfire ammunition to hunt alligator, deer, antelope, or desert bighorn sheep.
(D) It is unlawful to hunt alligators, game animals or game birds with a fully automatic firearm or any firearm equipped with a silencer or sound-suppressing device.

Hogs are treated as exotics, and predators (coyotes, mountain lions) are classified as non-game. As long as you are in legal possession of the suppressed firearm, then it is legal to hunt hogs and coyotes with that suppressed firearm. You will need to have your BATFE “stamp” on you, as well as proof of hunter education certification, if applicable. Lastly, you must have landowner permission to be hunting on the property.

Scott Vaca
Assistant Chief of Wildlife Enforcement


Texas Parks & Wildlife Department
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
Office: (512) 389-4626
Fax: (512) 389-8400
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  #20  
Old 10-04-2009, 03:00 AM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 34
Re: Is this legal in TX

Guys, with pigs being such a big problem in TX, do you have to dispose of the carcass or can you just shoot a bunch and leave them on the ground?
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  #21  
Old 10-04-2009, 09:40 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Humble Texas
Posts: 16
Re: Is this legal in TX

outerspace,
im pretty much new to the hog hunting, but what i have seen so far is once you shoot the others take of quick like ninja.. most folks i have come across attempt to ,,,shoot to kill cleanly,, and hold off on other shots on the hogs running off for fear of just wounding them.. even though these pigs are so destructive i havent run across anyone who would just fire into a group of em on semi auto, and hardly anyone i have met leave a dead hog behind. they are used for meat unless there is something they see wrong with the animal..like a really bad smell of the meat , tumors/boils.. even the folks who have their freezers stuffed with hog meat, will give the meat to others or donate it to shelters and such. the areas i have hunted in, the pigs have a quick exit back into some shrub brush or a stand of trees. they are difficult to get in close on if you are stalking. they hear and smell very well, and any noise they are not comfortable with they just leave the area, they dont tend to stop and look for whats making the noise like a deer or coyote they just go,, most of the hogs come out at night so that limits the hunters visibility, and the folks getting like 8 or 9 a night are the ones using night vision or thermal scopes , and have multiple properties that they are allowed acsess to..(which i highly reccomend you try, we had a great time).. and most of the hunters dont have access to night these devices..so most of their hunts are a good clean solo kill, some get lucky and get a double when the two are next to each other, or ya get a dumb one that circles back around through the kill area.. thats pretty much what i have seen so far, again im only a rookie here and only been at this for a year so if i am way off base my apoligies.. just what i have learned so far..
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