Killin' Science And Bullet Selection For The Layman

[FGRshooter]

Only elk I ever could not recover was shot at relatively close range (250yds) with a light, fast bullet that penetrated both shoulders and exited. Found him 12hrs later and he bolted like nothing had happened. This particular bullet held together so well that it managed to miss major arteries and I suspect was on the high side of the lungs. Obviously a less than perfect shot but now I use bullets that will give me a little extra leeway and create a more destructive wound channel. That's my medicine but if it kills, use it.

[CRaTxn]

I am sorry but timeout, BS. Jim the deer's cardiovascular system is a closed loop system. I hate to tell you but you have NOT invented another i.e. third way to kill deer through "pressure loss". To lose pressure, you have to have blood loss...there is no valve stem you put your Rage broadhead in and let air out of the deer. Think hemorrhage

[edge]

Originally Posted by CRaTxn

I am sorry but timeout, BS. Jim the deer's cardiovascular system is a closed loop system. I hate to tell you but you have NOT invented another i.e. third way to kill deer through "pressure loss". To lose pressure, you have to have blood loss...there is no valve stem you put your Rage broadhead in and let air out of the deer. Think hemorrhage

I won't argue with either of you.

The deer absolutely falls down quickly due to the loss of blood pressure, but dies due to lack of oxygen which takes several minutes.

A bullet or broadhead that severs the arteries above the heart almost instantly deprive the brain of oxygen and you get the characteristic head down death run. This happens much too fast for much loss of blood and can only come from near zero blood pressure pushing oxygenated blood through the brain.
I do agree that death eventually comes from the lack of oxygenated blood to the brain.

edge.

[jimd46902]

I agree with both of you and I didn't try to invent another way to die, but when the deer takes off at a run and then sumersaults to the ground, it is hemorrage as you say but it is the lack of blood pressure that caused a black-out. Then they die of hemorrage and lack of oxygen.

[CRaTxn]

Loss of blood pressure is DUE TO loss of volume in the closed loop system. Insufficient pressure to push enough volume of oxygen enriched blood through the brain makes mammals light-headed, then unconscious, then comatose and then one crosses over to the Long Range Happy Hunting Grounds.
I respect Jim's ability to successfully hunt with a primitive stick and string (or not so primitive carbon arrow & compound bow)...that's about all I know of him and his past.
I very much respect Shane's documented skill at LRH and enjoy the knowledge he shares on this and other forums, but I want our forum to be factual based (could be the attention-to-detail pilot in me).
So in both cases I am not attacking them but their expressed theories. In the US Air Force Aviation Physiology courses we not only study but do lab work with our own body in altitude chambers to learn and periodically refresh our recognition of the various symptoms of hypoxia (oxygen starvation) and its neurological effects. Our modus is the altitude chamber whereby we change the partial pressure of the O2 in solution in our blood stream by changing atmospheric pressure i.e. sea level to 35,000 feet. We don't kill deer by ascending them to FL350, we take some of the blood out of their closed loop system.

[jimd46902]

LOL, I agree and bow to your expertise. I was mistaken and bow out gracefully with my tail between my legs. I really do appreciate your posts and hope to learn more in the future. I still hunt with real stick and string, I make my own one piece wooden bows, nettle fiber string, river cane shafts with my own knapped points but am getting joint problems in my shooting fingers from too many years of flat bow shooting.

[edge]

So death from a heart attack is due to loss of blood...

I didn't think so, it is from the brain being deprived of O2.
A broadhead, bullet, electrical shock or a thousand other reasons can cause the heart to not beat.

A bullet obliterating the heart muscle will cause some blood loss, but not the 15% or more of your total supply needed to kill you.
While you will bleed out over time, you will be unconscious almost instantly because the brain can't work without a fresh supply of oxygenated blood.

Now you can cut off your arm and you will most likely remain conscious for a significant amount of time...at least compared to the victim without a beating heart ie: blood pressure.

edge.