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Killin' Science And Bullet Selection For The Layman

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Unread 01-24-2011, 05:50 PM
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Killin' Science And Bullet Selection For The Layman

All animals are mostly water. So think of this. Imagine hanging up a waterproof full sized punching bag that's full of three day old mash taters. You know the ones that have increased their viscosity some. Now shoot a scalpel through it. What did we observe? The bag did not move or swing much. It was not a dramatic looking event. We have a hole through both sides of our bag that is leaking pretty fast. And if we were to dissect the bag and mash taters we would see merely slits through the wound "channel". But the "hole" or wound channel is tight, meaning from the elasticity of the mash taters "meat," the channel drew back up on itself, not 100%, but mostly.
This is a thread for discussion of the article, Killin' Science And Bullet Selection For The Layman, By Tres MonCeret. Here you can ask questions or make comments about the article.
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Unread 02-13-2011, 11:23 PM
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Re: Killin' Science And Bullet Selection For The Layman

Great article we use to shoot moose with 180gr, 30-06 now we use 165gr sst and have lost no moose. The faster bullets seem to do more damage not to the meat but to the shock of the hit,they lay down sooner. tomestone
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Unread 02-14-2011, 03:17 AM
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Re: Killin' Science And Bullet Selection For The Layman

although i agreed with most of the info you put out in the article, cant agree with it all.

although theory is nice, long bullet holes in vitals is nicer. energy alone is NOT what kills. all of your commentary on how bullets work was correct, but, i would rather have a bit of energy going out the other side of the animal for a couple reasons, even if it means wasting some.

first, it means the critter has 2 holes to leak out of. now, ever since i was little i was taught to put 2 holes in a juice can. second, it means that my bullet got all the way thru the animal and the vitals i was aiming for.

what actually kills an animal is a shutting off of the central nervous system or they suffocate. they suffocate due to blood loss, not energy absorbtion. they lose blood, does not feed the brain and other parts oxygen and they shut down due to hypoxia (fancy way to say lack of oxygen). again, energy can be the vehicle of that suffocation (blood loss) but not the reason they died.

i have shot what is becoming lots of deer, moose, caribou, dall sheep, mt goats, elk, black and brown bears and have seen even more shot. energy does not kill larger animals especially bears. (been guiding in ak for last 11 years).

saw one brown bear shot 5 times with a 300 ultra mag. that bear soaked up lots of energy, but evidently the bullets were not getting thru to the vitals. hunter shot it once with a 300 um, the guide broke its back as it ran off with a 375 h & h, the hunter continued to shoot the bear 4 or 5 more times (was watching the show from a fishing boat) and talked verified everthing with the guide later.

holes thru the vitals kills stuff. now if the bullet gets to the vitals and dumps a bunch of energy and destroys lots of tissue, the more tissue wrecked means the quicker an animal is killed. but, if hit in the vitals with a barnes x or a berger of same caliber, both animals are just as dead.

a hole thru their lungs and shoulders does it every time. now i am not saying that a barnes bullet is better or worse than a berger or a max bullet. i just wanted to clarify that energy by itself does not kill stuff. heck, otherwise would not even matter where we hit the critters.

a good article, thanks for writing it,

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Unread 05-22-2011, 06:07 PM
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Re: Killin' Science And Bullet Selection For The Layman

Entrance wounds are small holes made by unexpanded bullets that do not bleed as much as exit holes. The bullet has not expanded and the permanent and temporary wound channels are some distance inside the animal (unless you hit a shoulder blade etc.)...the ragged edged expanded bullets makes a nasty exit wound for a blood trail. Would be nice if we never needed to find an animal that did not die close to where it was shot BUT that is reality. Archers know the value of a blood trail in recovering game animals. Big thick skinned animals at close range may not always pose for a "proper" double lunger profile. Hell, I've even had coyotes running away hump up at the shot and make it to thick cover with a varmint bullet that did not make is past the pelvic and viscera. For me , put a Barnes X up the snout while you are walking in to your LRH high ground then exchange it for Berger VLDs while you are glassing , then back in for the walk out. My reasoning is that usually I am presented with a Texas Heart Shot from an animal I jump walking in or walking out and don't have the option of waiting for a perfect side shot. Once I am in my blind or hide, those animals are unaware and I do have time to wait for the proper presentation. Another reason for Barnes Xs when still hunting is that deep penetration allows taking the onside organ and offside shoulder or vise versa to anchor the animal right there BUT that is not LRH and this forum is.

Ditto about the bears. I have taken and guided several blacks and browns and it is amazing how far and into what crap they can go to expire with heart/lung shots. Better to break them down and turn off the CNS or at least wreck the drive train/transmission.
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Unread 05-23-2011, 09:59 AM
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Re: Killin' Science And Bullet Selection For The Layman


I enjoyed the article but cringe when someone says that energy is "wasted" because the bullet exited.

A larger wound channel IS caused by a bullet at higher velocity.
If I am hunting a Whitetail deer and follow your "energy dump", I will try to pick a bullet that won't exit on a broadside shot so perhaps 14 inches of penetration would be a max.

On a quartering away shot if I might have to enter behind the ribs, traverse the liver puncture the diaphragm, lung and hopefully still reach the heart. Even if it falls short of the heart he should not go too far.

On the same shot I misjudge the wind or he moves a few inches forward and instead of hitting the guts, liver, diaphragm, and lung I now hit the rear ham.
Now my bullet has to traverse big muscle, guts and I have used up my energy and I suspect he has about 4 hours to expire if I don't push him.

Personally I want an exit, not for a blood trail, but for the fact that if it has the energy to exit it has the energy to make it to the vitals on a less than perfect broadside shot

I do not mean to imply that MY WAY is the only way, and obviously folks need to hunt the way that makes the most sense for them and should not worry about other folks theories including mine

Last edited by edge; 05-23-2011 at 11:12 AM. Reason: PS
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Unread 04-12-2012, 11:53 PM
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Re: Killin' Science And Bullet Selection For The Layman

Entertaining article. Plenty of words . All bullets are effective when understood and used accordingly.
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Unread 04-18-2012, 04:34 PM
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Re: Killin' Science And Bullet Selection For The Layman

I shoot alot of game with a bow, and I rarely have an animal go 60 yards after a good hit, but that is with a Rage broadhead and a good shot. No energy in the shock but it does a good job of hemostatic pressure loss. So it seems there are 3 ways to kill, Pressure loss, damage (blood loss) or Devastating shock.
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