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Custom Barrel Care at 17X By Jim See

 
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  #29  
Old 01-06-2010, 10:05 PM
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Re: Custom Barrel Care at 17X By Jim See

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU Marksman View Post
I'm curious what the purpose of the Kano is? If you plan on firing the next shot right away, is having a light coating of rust preventative in the barrel helping anything?
MSU, I feel that the kroil will act as a bit of a lubricant for the barrel kind of like oil in a piston cylinder. A cylinder is honed with a cross hatch pattern to hold some oil to lubricate the rings as they move. The kroil applied and then wiped with a dry patch will leave a lite film in the micro finish of the lapped barrel. This may or may not lessen the fouling during break-in, or help with the burnishing, but it sure can't hurt. If I assume that the carbon that collects in the "Valleys" of the microfinish actually preform a vital function, then I can surmise that a bit of kroil in those valleys may be benifital, until that carbon arrives. Can I prove it? No.

Most barrel makers are lapping with a abrasive grit of 100-150, this abrasive brakes down a bit as they lap, but the results of the lapping is a deffinate texture to the steel that will hold lubricant like a cylinder wall.

This kinda explains why I feel a 800-1200 grit bore polish is a bad thing, more surface contact with the bullet increased friction and pressure, and copper that galls or smears down the bore.
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  #30  
Old 01-07-2010, 12:22 AM
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Re: Custom Barrel Care at 17X By Jim See

Good article, enjoyed reading it. It's always nice to get different views on such a widely debated subject.
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  #31  
Old 01-31-2010, 11:13 AM
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Re: Custom Barrel Care at 17X By Jim See

Jim, very good and informative article and one of the ones that always gets my attention. Through the years I have owned many rifles, and almost lost one due to IMPROPER cleaning. I have long since used only fitted bore guides and DEWEY coated rods and jags. I must admit though the frequentcy issue gets me somtimes on different rifles as some need cleaning at closer intervals, and some at longer intervals. My regiment for break in has always been exactly as you mentioned earlier. The solvents I use are shooters choice, JB bore cleaner, and I use 7.62 remover to CHECK myself after cleaning, then thouroughly rinse out after, then finish with a coat of kroil. P/S; kroil breaks down carbon build up in barrels during short storage. I typically clean only as much that is needed to give me back that FEEL that I know is the guns sweet spot, but am sometimes amazed at how much or how little it takes to get you there versus how many times the gun has been fired. Do you feel that JB bore cleaner can ruin a barrel? I have heard some horror stories. When you use , or if you use it, how and how much ? I just read a article on Brownells website that was E mailed about his technique. What is yours? Thanks again
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  #32  
Old 01-31-2010, 10:15 PM
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Re: Custom Barrel Care at 17X By Jim See

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Originally Posted by 7stw View Post
Jim, very good and informative article and one of the ones that always gets my attention. Through the years I have owned many rifles, and almost lost one due to IMPROPER cleaning. I have long since used only fitted bore guides and DEWEY coated rods and jags. I must admit though the frequentcy issue gets me somtimes on different rifles as some need cleaning at closer intervals, and some at longer intervals. My regiment for break in has always been exactly as you mentioned earlier. The solvents I use are shooters choice, JB bore cleaner, and I use 7.62 remover to CHECK myself after cleaning, then thouroughly rinse out after, then finish with a coat of kroil. P/S; kroil breaks down carbon build up in barrels during short storage. I typically clean only as much that is needed to give me back that FEEL that I know is the guns sweet spot, but am sometimes amazed at how much or how little it takes to get you there versus how many times the gun has been fired. Do you feel that JB bore cleaner can ruin a barrel? I have heard some horror stories. When you use , or if you use it, how and how much ? I just read a article on Brownells website that was E mailed about his technique. What is yours? Thanks again
I avoid abrasive paste, and do not recomend there use for general cleaning in custom barrels. The only time I use an abrasive is if I have a BUILD UP of carbon. To be honest I mostly see this in AR-15 barrels that guys bring in for cleaning, (they will actually have a smooth solid black coating of carbon through out the bore groove) and the ocassional factory gun that was not cleaned for years.

Boreteck does remove carbon and if you clean your rifle as needed there should be no carbon build-up, unless the powder you are using is quite dirty. When I do use an abrasive (For carbon fouling only)it is for only 2-3 strokes with Iosso bore paste, as I stated earlier the fine abrasives in any paste will polish the barrel and alter the lapped finish that the barrel maker so carfully aplied to the bore during lapping. Generally though my custom barreled rifles will never see abrasive paste in there lifetime. The chemical copper removers are of such good quality that a properly conditioned barrel will clean up in less than 5 patches.
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  #33  
Old 08-13-2010, 09:45 AM
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Re: Custom Barrel Care at 17X By Jim See

Jim,

You are a courageous guy to wade into this particularly hot topic. Enjoyed meeting you at the VHA Jam last month. My own experience aligns very closely with yours. What my borescope has shown me is that the throat/leade (also known as the freebore) area on top of the lands cut by the reamer is far rougher than the freshly lapped top of the lands. Whats begins happening immediately after the first round is the smoothing out of this rough area of the throat. This is I think is the major source of initial fouling. And as you have accurately pointed out, the fouling trends down fairly rapidly during the break-in (3-5 rounds). How many rounds it takes is very dependent on the particular barrel even from the same maker. However, I have definitely noticed that button rifled barrels break in more quickly than cut rifled barrels, I think because they are more lapped by necessity than the average cut rifled barrel, which leads me to believe that the break-in is also smoothing out the rest of the barrel steel itself. (Note - I am not making a statement of preference for buttoned barrels, just referencing what happens during break in. What happens in a particular type of barrel as it heats, cools and recovers during extended shooting is another subject). At some point, the finish on top of the lands in the throat/leade begins to match the finish on the lands further forward and the barrel settles down to shooting consistently and fouling much less.

On the related issue of maintenance cleaning (post break-in), I learned something back in the 90s from my first long range tactical shooting instructor. It has to do with the concept of the cold bore shot. As has been stated a number of times in the other responses, competitors always shoot one to several foulers to "settle down" the tube prior to competing. The tactical military / LE shooter doesn't always have the same luxury. So they go to great lengths to monitor and document their particular rifle's unique clean/cold bore behavior. It is usually very consistent assuming they follow a disciplined repeatable cleaning protocol. What my instructor taught me was to develop a highly specific cleaning procedure at specific shot number intervals. For instance, 5 wet patches, 5 round trip strokes of a wet bronze brush, 5 wet patches then 5 dry patches after every 20 to 50 rounds. Each gun/barrel will respond differently to different numbers of the above. What his point was and what I've discovered is that once a specific procedure is determined for a given gun, the clean/cold bore shot will stay either in the group or very much closer to the group and is very repeatable. The reason for all this lies in the fact that you are never actually cleaning completely down to bare "copperless" steel. And since the primary point of this website is hunting and not competing, I think this concept might be quite useful for us long range hunters that can only really depend on the first cold bore shot going where we want it to go.

Best Regards
Dale Troutt

Last edited by Len Backus; 08-13-2010 at 07:32 PM.
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  #34  
Old 08-13-2010, 06:22 PM
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Re: Custom Barrel Care at 17X By Jim See

Welcome to LRH Dale, I'm sure you will like it here. Your experiece can aid many shooters.

Are you going back to VHJ next year?
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  #35  
Old 08-14-2010, 01:14 AM
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Re: Custom Barrel Care at 17X By Jim See

Thanks Jim,

I can't believe I didn't know about this forum before now.

I will most likely go back next year. I had a great time even with the humbling conditions. That was the best run match I think I've ever been to. Great setup and people. And those kids hustling to reset targets was awesome.


Best Regards
Dale
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