Air Temperature Effects On Muzzle Velocity By Gustavo F. Ruiz

[yobuck]

well im not offended by that as i know your intentions are good. just somewhat misguided as far as longrange hunting goes.
needless to say one should strive to be the best they can be in any venture including the subject matter.
that said there are things beyond our control we can only cope with and adjust to as best we can.

i come from a state where long range hunting and 1000 yd. target shooting as we know it were born. that being pennsylvania.
ive known and hunted with some of the best long range target shooters the world has known. also some of the best gunsmiths for building those type rifles the world has known.
my association with long range hunting goes back over 40 years.

1000 yd. target shooters wouldnt even think of firing their record group without taking sighter shots.
even then conditions can change in an instant, causing the very best shooters serious problems.
yet come hunting season when most guys leave their rifles and ammo in the vehicle on below freezing nights, were somehow expected to make first shot kills on game.

obviously youve never experienced those wide valleys where the wind can blow in several directions at the same time. sometimes straight up off a frozen river below.
your fingers might be so numb from waiting for a shot you cant feel the trigger.
the opposite sidehill is also tree covered and that means branches, lots of branches.

the best hitters in baseball still get 3 swings of their bat. when they connect on the third after missing 2 everybody celebrates.
and you know what, so do we.
you can think whatever you like about that.

[phorwath]

When the target is a living game animal, some think it best to put in the effort to help ensure first round hits in the vitals. That's what the topic of this thread is intended to do. Testing MV at a few differing equipment temperatures to determine whether or not MV changes should be considered, and modified in a ballistics program, to allow for their affect on POI at long range.

One of your prior posts talked about employing a spotter to bring second or later shots on target. Nothing wrong with that. However your posts seemed to under-emphasize preparations to improve first round deadly hits. And over-emphasize follow-up shots. That's my take on it, and why you're getting some guff.

[Mikecr]

I'm born & raised in NE PA.
And I have not, and never would assume multi-shots to take game.
The hook to HUNTING is strategy, and all other preparation efforts paying off, to overcome the challenges of it.
It isn't just steping away from the truck and shooting and shooting far off -until hitting something.
Even target shooting is not so pathetic...

I'm from PA, and I do not shoot beyond my single cold-barrel-shot capabilities.
Yes, I miss, and so my mark lives another day..
Now my passion is again charged!

Friend, correlating anything in hunting to target shooting, and stretching with this only to reduce your efforts, will only chip away your character, and cheapen this sport.

[yobuck]

pharworth, you are absolutly correct in your assesment of the importance of first round hits in the vitals.
certainly that should be strived for to the best of our ability.
if my prior remarks led you or others to think i consider that unimportant, i appologise for that.
that certainly isnt what i think or would encourage.
i do think its dangerous to promote the idea that with proper equiptment and training, mistakes cant happen.
im of the opinion that the read it, dial it ,and then just one shot theory is just that, theory.
there is no doubt cold weather affects velocity, and that can vary according to powder used. if some want to go to great legnths to try and figure out how much affect it has thats fine with me.
ill repeat what ive said in other post. if you want to be a successful and consientious long range hunter use a spotter.
as for the comments about target shooting and long range hunting having no correlation. well thats too assenine to even comment on.

[Mikecr]

Originally Posted by yobuck

im of the opinion that the read it, dial it ,and then just one shot theory is just that, theory.

You need to listen to those who do just this.
Being a successful long range hunter is like being a successful sniper. You stalk your mark at distance, and drop it with an intelligent, high percentage shot.

I hit 500yd chucks with single shots at better than 80% with a 223.
Why only 500?
Because that's where I can hit them with such a percentage -in the field.
Is it 'long range hunting'?
Yes.
Is it long range shooting?
Who cares??

There are no sighters.. No walking shots into game.. No shooting and shooting till you hit.. It's not a friggin video game......
For any situation where you're not certain about the shot, move to a better position for a shot.
Could be closer, could be further. What should matter is that you know what you're doing, and you get-r-done..
If you can't get a higher percentage shot, you just don't shoot.

Why would you shoot anyway?
Because you just don't get it.
And you will never be a long range hunter...

[Chas1]

Good article but I must admit I have read it several times and understand it a little better each time....I think. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[yobuck]

not all that many years ago this conversation wouldnt have taken place. thats because very few people in very few places were doing what were talking about here.
back in the 50s for example very few hunters even had scopes on their rifles.
the most popular rifle by far in the pa. deer woods at that time was a 3030 model 94 winchester.
yet even then, there were guys doing what were talking about here in the steep mountains of n/c pa. and quite possibly other places as well.
they took alot of flak also. again, mostly from other hunters.
my first awareness of them was in 1956 when i witnessed a man laying prone on a dirt road kill a deer with a 270 with a unertle scope on it. he claimed the deer was 700 yards.
years later i checked that distance with my newly aquired barr&stroud rangefinder. he was almost exactly right on .
the improvments in knowledge and equiptment since then is hard to comprehend. most of those improvments at least on the equiptment end, can be attributed to the shooting community, not hunters.
for what its worth, im not and have never been a serious target shooter.


as for snipers, the only similarity between hunters and snipers is long shooting.
the sniper has his life on the line, and quite possibly the lives of others.
a miss could mean disaster for them. its certainly in his best interest to get any advantage he can.
thats not the case in hunting however.
this is what we choose to do for enjoyment. our lives are usualy not in danger, only our egos can be injured.
certainly we should strive to take game in as humane a manor as we can. every consideration should be taken before we decide to pull that trigger.
but all that considered, i for one think its ok if you happen to miss.
if he wants to stand there and let you try again go for it.
hopefully through the eyes of your spotter you'll know why you missed and the next shot will bring different results.
shooting at animals across valleys, standing on steep sidehills is a different game than shooting at them on the other side of a meadow or across a ravine.
for us, 500 yards is a very nice shot, but its not what we think of as long range.
sorry about that.