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View Poll Results: Do you use MOA or MIL
MIL 265 26.29%
MOA 743 73.71%
Voters: 1008. You may not vote on this poll

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What system, MOA or Mil, do you use?

 
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  #99  
Old 07-23-2012, 12:30 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Iron Range, Minnesota
Posts: 789
Re: What system, MOA or Mil, do you use?

I thought I was going to switch to MOA when I upgrade, now though, MILs ar starting to grow on me, I like MOA for doing my internal adjustments, but I like mill for using the reticle, does that make sense?
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  #100  
Old 07-30-2012, 10:37 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 116
Re: What system, MOA or Mil, do you use?

I used mils a lot when I was in the military running machine gun schools. Mil dots didn't start getting popular until I retired.

I do like Mil Dots for range estimations but I like my scope to click in MOA. For hunting its easier to convert MOA to inches for estimating hold overs or adjustments when I know the size of the target.

An example, lets say the girth size of an antelope is 15 inches. I know my drop when sigthed in for 100 yards so all I have to do is use its girth size to know how many inches to hold over or adjust for. Its just easier for me to see that in inches and then MOA then it is to think in mils.

What it really comes down to is how you were trained and what you practice.
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  #101  
Old 08-09-2012, 08:57 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 8
Re: What system, MOA or Mil, do you use?

I use MOA. Have never used mil-dot. Both are good I am sure. MOA just because that's what I started shooting with and it makes sense to talk in terms of inches.
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  #102  
Old 08-22-2012, 11:02 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 49
How coarse are MRAD adjustments to MoA?

Same debate going on here on CGN so I'll copy paste my speel about how MRAD adjustments are really not that bad compared to MoA.


Quote:
After reading through your experiment I do understand what you're talking about and it does make sense. 1/4MoA adjustments will get you closer than 1/10MRAD adjustments will (most of the time). What I'm trying to figure out is just how bad MRAD adjustments are compared to MoA. Because I went to school for engineering and not arts and crafts, I let Excell do the work for me.


Whether you're shooting F-Class or pop cans, you will shoot, see where your shot hit, see where you want to hit, decide on how much adjustment to use based on your rifle's precision (usually divide miss distance by 2 or take 2nd shot at same Point of Aim). After all this, we all come to the same conclusion: adjust X.X clicks horizontally and X.X clicks vertically.


What I did was simulate a required adjustment for 0.25" to 10.00" at 1000 yards and applied the rounded click adjustment. Even the 1/8MoA adjustment won't get you exactly on target most of the time and there will be some error in PoA and PoI or group center.


I graphed the results as well as averaged to difference between the MoA and MRAD miss distance for comparison.



  • 1/4 MoA vs 1/10 MRAD: 1/4 MoA will get you on average 0.28" closer to your PoA than 1/10 MRAD will. Extreme differences are 0.97" advantage to 1/4 MoA and 0.97" advantage to MRAD (depending on the required adjustment, see graph).
  • 1/4 MoA vs 1/8 MoA: 1/8 MoA will get you on average 0.27" closer to your PoA than 1/4 MoA will. Extreme differences are 1.29" advantage to 1/8 MoA and 0.00" advantage to 1/4 MoA
  • 1/8 MoA vs 1/10 MRAD: 1/8 MoA will get you on average 0.55" closer to your PoA than 1/10 MRAD will. Extreme differences are 1.32" advantage to 1/8 MoA and 0.35" advantage to MRAD (depending on the required adjustment, see graph).







Here's a refined picture for 0.1 MRAD or 3.6" at 1000 yards:

As you can see, it is a repeating series. There are certain required adjustments where 1/10 MoA will bring you closer to your PoA than 1/4 MoA and even closer than 1/8 MoA when an adjustment of about 3.6" and 7.2" is required (where the required adjustment equals 1 or 2 tenths of a mil).




So, basically, by going with a 1/10 MRAD adjustment scope instead of a 1/4 MoA one, you are only going to be off by an average of a quarter inch at 1000 yards due to scope adjustment coarsness (if that's even a word).


Hope that helps!
__________________
We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing. ― Charles Bukowski

Only precise rifles are interesting.
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  #103  
Old 08-26-2012, 09:52 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 22
Re: What system, MOA or Mil, do you use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtownBcat View Post
Ok, so im really not looking for a debate on what system is better. The fact is, they both have good features and in the right hands can work equally well. I get the idea though that people like Arron Davidson(Not knocking AD at all just a observation based on the fact his LRF does not give corrections in MIL.) have the preception that only tatical guys use MIL. So I would like to see how many use each system.
Never shot a Mil based rifle because i grew up with MOA. Is that saying you can't have a great time with a Red Head when all you have dated are Blondes? Not at all. It's all in what you learn and comfortable with.
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  #104  
Old 08-27-2012, 12:02 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Clover, SC
Posts: 22
Re: What system, MOA or Mil, do you use?

I just got my first Mil dot scope and really like it. I'm still working on thinking in mils instead of inches, but all the ballistics calculators I have tried let you select either and my MilDot Master gives me the conversion if all I know is the inches.
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  #105  
Old 09-08-2012, 08:42 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 245
Re: What system, MOA or Mil, do you use?

Math is easier on mils. Contrary to popular thought, it works with any unit of measure, not just the metric system.

Learned mils in artillery and I stuck with them on the scope.
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