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View Poll Results: Which is the better hunting bullet?
Barnes TSX/TTSX 417 61.05%
Nosler Partition 266 38.95%
Voters: 683. You may not vote on this poll

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Barnes TSX/TTSX vs Nosler Partition

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  #169  
Unread 09-06-2013, 04:06 PM
RTK RTK is offline
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Left coast, kalifornia
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Re: Barnes TSX/TTSX vs Nosler Partition

Last study I read about showed it was not the lead used by the hunters/shooters that was/is causing the problems with the condor, but a different source in the environment. Better get on mother nature.lol
You don't see them changing the law back to allow lead now though. I think it had just as much to do with trying to ban hunting as saving the condor (ugly vulcher bird).
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  •   #170  
    Unread 09-06-2013, 04:35 PM
    Silver Member
     
    Join Date: Dec 2010
    Location: Lake Tahoe, Calif.
    Posts: 290
    Re: Barnes TSX/TTSX vs Nosler Partition

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RTK View Post
    Last study I read about showed it was not the lead used by the hunters/shooters that was/is causing the problems with the condor, but a different source in the environment. Better get on mother nature.lol
    You don't see them changing the law back to allow lead now though. I think it had just as much to do with trying to ban hunting as saving the condor (ugly vulcher bird).
    +1 RTK
    Yes, I would like to know the real truth and statistics behind keeping the Condor zone and especially since they want to expand it to the whole state...and eventually not just for hunting. I have read that lead paint on buildings at retired army bases and other sources are in part or perhaps mostly the source, not bullet fragments in gut piles. But the other side says that there is data that shows the lead ban was followed by an increase in Condor survival rate. But is that the whole story? Maybe they demolished and cleaned up a military or industrial mess during that period.

    Besides, why not just require hunters to bury the gut piles? Coyotees who can dig are not cited as needing protection, only Condors and other birds of prey. And they cite 99.9% hunter compliance with the lead ban, so they should realize that requiring gut burial would be effective as well.

    Barnes are excellent bullets, but we should be allowed to use them when we choose rather than be forced to because of a feel good political move that does not actually save endangered wildlife.

    I have written my representatives.

    Maybe its time for a dedicated thread here.
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      #171  
    Unread 09-06-2013, 04:49 PM
    Gold Member
     
    Join Date: Nov 2012
    Location: Copper Basin, Alaska
    Posts: 839
    Re: Barnes TSX/TTSX vs Nosler Partition

    I really wish that more bullets would Reliably NOT expand. That's the problem with most target bullets. In reliable expansion. For fur I don't want expansion. . But to get back to the original? I trust Barnes to Not over expand and destroy a pelt. Where the Partition really sets up soon and makes quite a hole.
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      #172  
    Unread 09-06-2013, 04:57 PM
    Silver Member
     
    Join Date: Dec 2010
    Location: Lake Tahoe, Calif.
    Posts: 290
    Re: Barnes TSX/TTSX vs Nosler Partition

    Seeing a TSX hit objects at the range, and seeing a 130gr .277 whack a Russian boar at about 160 yards and the through and through it made, its hard to imagine a bullet failure with one of those. I couldn't tell how much it expanded but both the entrance and exit were much larger than .277. In this pic you can see where I hit him, just above the heart, and there are blood splatters all the way up betwen his ear and eye! Major arteries and 1 lung was gone.
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    Barnes TSX/TTSX vs Nosler Partition-2013-05-21-05.29.17.jpg  
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      #173  
    Unread 09-06-2013, 05:01 PM
    Silver Member
     
    Join Date: Dec 2010
    Location: Lake Tahoe, Calif.
    Posts: 290
    Re: Barnes TSX/TTSX vs Nosler Partition

    Now must decide between TSX and SGK for lead-allowed deer zones I have tags for....decisions decisions.
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      #174  
    Unread 09-07-2013, 12:32 PM
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    Join Date: Nov 2012
    Location: Copper Basin, Alaska
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    Re: Barnes TSX/TTSX vs Nosler Partition

    The TSX and TTSX react well to the resistance in front of them. They tend to keep going in a straight line. , that's what I want.
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      #175  
    Unread 09-09-2013, 03:01 PM
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    Join Date: Dec 2010
    Location: Lake Tahoe, Calif.
    Posts: 290
    Re: Barnes TSX/TTSX vs Nosler Partition

    Apologies in advance for highjacking the thread to the lead ammunition ban argument that has sufraced as a Senate bill to ban all lead ammo for hunting in California....I wanted to dig a little deeper to get at the truth of the claims and found this research paper by several University of Calif. and other agencies. This could be your state next!

    Link to study:
    http://www.ventanaws.org/images/spec...nia_Condor.pdf

    My short take on it:
    It is dense reading and we see assumptions being made, however it is some of the important data being considered. Firstly, in the graphs I don't see big drops in the lead poisoning since lead ammo was banned in the prescribed area. Also they do not talk about hunting statistics in Calif. Has it increased or decreased over the years? Did a rise in the number of hunters lead to a rise in Condor lead poisoning? They do talk about matching PB isotope ratios which may be telling. I don't know if there are other applications for the same lead isotop as is used in hunting. Do they? So I had to push through to the "what ifs". Still I'm uncertain of the truth or efficacy of conclusions.

    In the paragraph below, they seem to be saying that even with the best mitigation techniques (banning lead ammo, etc.) it will take 1,800 YEARS FOR NATURAL INCREASE OF THE CONDOR POPUPLATION TO 150 BIRDS!!! HELLO- WTF??? 2,000 YEARS TO SPAWN AND SUSTAIN A POPULATION LEVEL OF 150 BIRDS? WE HUMANS WILL DESTROY THE EARTH BEFORE THEN! AND THEY'RE ONLY 53% SURE THAT INCREASE WILL HAPPEN?? THAT MEANS THE ONLY WAY TO INCREASE THEIR POPULATION SIGNIFICANTLY IS TO BREED AND RELEASE. IN THAT CASE WHY NOT JUST BREED 150 OF THESE GUT MUNCHERS, RELEASE THEM, DO IT SEVERAL TIMES, AND KEEP THE EXISTING AREA BAN?


    With current levels of intensive management, the California
    condor population is predicted to be roughly stable (best esti-
    mate of annual growth = 1.0003) (Fig. 4
    A
    ). Thus, without future
    releases of captive-reared birds, the population would take

    1,800 y to meet the recovery goal of a noncaptive population of
    150 individuals within California (9). Importantly, this estimate of
    population stability is dependent on the continuation in perpetuity
    of the current level of management interventions, including near
    daily monitoring and targeted trapping and treatment if individual
    behaviors indicate lead poisoning. In addition, accounting for
    parameter estimation uncertainty shows that even this stability
    is unclear, with a 53% probability of growth rates less than one
    under current conditions
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