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Importance of Shooter-Spotter Communication.

 
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Old 06-12-2007, 12:53 PM
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Importance of Shooter-Spotter Communication.

Awhile back I believe one of the administrators posted the proper dialog between the shooter and spotter. I tho't it was important enough to save on the desk top. For reference it is included, below.

Well, guess what? It is important.

Ol' Duffus Roy and Mungus Paul, a father&son team went to the range to get Duffus Roy on the target at the 1192 gong. Mungus Paul was the spotter.

Another fella, local 50cal shooter observed all of this. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Last session put the dials spot on at 500 meters. There is no target between 500m and the 1192yd gong. So it was dial and give it a go.

Shooter was wearing Radian muffs with sound. Spotter was wearing foam ear plugs and was deafer than a post.

I shot and asked which way do I move it. He heard, "where did I hit?" He said "to the right". I said how far. He said "a couple a feet".

Let's see here 1.0472*11.92=where the calculator? Ah well lets go right a couple of MOA.

Duffus sets up again and lets one go. Spotter says, looking at the bullet trail, "Wow, that's way higher than I would have tho't and it curved in behind that juniper. The only juniper that I saw was on the left. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Huh, that's about 1.5 Mils according to the dots. Sets see now, 3.6*11.92= still no calulator. Better crank in a couple more MOA to the Right.

OK, lets do this again.

Bank. Mungus Spotter says, "Hey that was cool. It curved in behind that juniper again. Duffus me is thinkin' damn for a 10 MPH wind here, it must be blowing like hell there"

Then I says, "Which juniper are ya talkin' about (There's a zillion of em out there) Mungus spotter says, no kiddin this is really what he said, "The green one." Duffus Shooter says, Hell! they're ALL green. Mungus says "No the one I'm talking about is "greener" than the rest." Geeze, its just like talking with his mother, I thinks. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

The greener one is to the right [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. Hell!!!!!!

Why didn't cha say I was hitting to the right!!!!!!!!???????

All of a sudden, things make sense!!! I dial out all those MOAs (musta been around 20 of 'em). Then dial in the windage for 500m which I knew to be spot on. Then dialed in the appropriate windage (into the wind this time [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]).

Me and the spotter get synchronized for this shot. I let it go. Then I hear a 'Doink", aaaah I like these Radians. I asked Mungus Spotter if he saw it and that I tho't I hit it. He responds with, "I didn't see a thing. I wasn't looking at the gong. You've got me pretty well trained to look everywhere else." [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Meanwhile the 50 cal guy in the peanut gallery is bustin' a a gut. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] Mumbling something about having done something even worse than that one time. (Yeah, I bet! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img])

I think I'm just gonna to to the range alone from now on. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Also, I think Mungus Spotter is due for an upgrade from those phome rubber plugs.......

------------------------------------------------------------
When you both setup, shooter is in final point of aim (on target) and spotter has his scope focused on target (usually focused just in front of the target so you can see the mirage best), then the spotter starts by saying:
"Spotter is on the target."

Now the shooter knows the spotter is ready to start.

Then the spotter gives the shooter his windage and elevation adjustments or hold-off.
The shooter repeats them back to confirm he has made the adjustment or knows the hold-off.
When the shooter is ready, he simply says: "Shooter Ready".

He stays on target but does not shoot.

Shortly after, after checking wind and mirage conditions the spotter says:
"Send It".

After the shooter hears that he should fire within a few seconds if possible, to ensure he is firing in the wind condition the spotter called.

After the shot is gone, the shooter does a "Call".

He says, "Broke Clean" if the crosshairs were properly positioned.

If he pulled the shot he describes the crosshair situation, for example he might say, "High left" or "Broke Right" so the spotter knows he may have influenced where the bullet hit, not a wind change. We mark the following info for each shot, Elevation, Windage, Call, Hit in a vertical column, plus mark the impact location in a little box. We also note wind, light, temps etc. at the top of the page. I made up a simple 8 1/2 by 11 page that we Xerox to keep track of about 40-50 shots per page. Keep a ring-binder for this.
.
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Old 06-12-2007, 08:12 PM
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Re: Importance of Shooter-Spotter Communication.

Well, I went up to Mifflin on Saturday for the groundhog shoot and JB1000BR was my spotter. I shot a few rounds at the sighter and didnot hit it but adjusted and decided to shoot at the target for score. I send the first shot and JB says aim 1.5 low and 1.5 left so I do and fire. He says again 1.5 low and 1.5 left so I do and fire. He says again 1.5 low and 1.5 left so I do and fire. Three shots all land 1.5 high and 1.5 right. He meant cumulative adjustments and I was interpreting aiming point.

Never mind, I got revenge on him. He wasn't on the paper either at that range so he said he was going to shoot at the rectangular rock. I ask where on the rock and hear "left bottom". He shoots and hits left bottom so I say you hit it. He shoots at the paper and misses the paper. We go back to the rock and he hits the lower left corner again and I tell him he hit it again. He shoots at the paper again and doesn't get paper. Finally, we have a discussion one more time on where on the rock is he aiming. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:13 AM
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Re: Importance of Shooter-Spotter Communication.

BB - part of my problem spotting my hits on the rock was the bullet was getting there so durn fast I couldn't get the sight picture back fast enough [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

we got 'er figured out soon after that target though [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

JB
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:18 AM
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Re: Importance of Shooter-Spotter Communication.

We might not have won any money, but we had a good time.

And most importantly, what you said about all scopes obeying the right hand screw rule for elevation is going to cut my prep time for hunting shots in half. No more getting up and bending over the scope and taking my glasses off to read which way to twist the dial. I have checked all of my scopes and they are all right hand screws. Amazing what simple things are important to know.

Plus half the time I loose my glasses and have to hunt for them before I can shoot.

Thanks for the tip.
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:55 PM
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Re: Importance of Shooter-Spotter Communication.

Nothin' I like better than company. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Most people don't admit such stuff in public. It takes a heck of a man!

What's this Right Handed thing. I don't seem to get it [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] But then I've just admitted not being too bright [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

I looked at mine and it shows R<----- which is counter clockwise or anticlockwise on the other side of the pond. (Went through half of a sheep dog training session before I caught on to that one [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img])

Same for the elevation. UP<------.

Given that, Righty Tightie Lefty loosley says the dial moves in the direction of bullet impact which is away from center of the scope for both.
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Old 06-13-2007, 04:33 PM
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Re: Importance of Shooter-Spotter Communication.

My partner and I shot a 'tactical' match two weekends ago... definitely an exercise in shooter/spotter dialogue.

The shooting part went OK... there was some frustration because the way the targets were set up even the 190gr Berger VLDs I was slingin' weren't throwing up much dirt to spot misses. It didn't help that his gun (with my scope on it!) was shooting just about everywhere but at the target (found out the next day he had loose scope rings, cross-ring bolts, and action screws), but the real circus was when we were spotting/ranging the targets to begin with. Depending on the layout of the targets, we didn't always shoot straight left to right, but sometimes close ones first (less cranking on the knobs), or get the flat ones first then go after the angled shots... and that was where the stuff hit the fan. He'd be referring to one target while I was writing down the info for another. I think the people watching probably figgered we were about to get in a wrestling match a time or two along the way, but we never quite got there... almost, but not quite. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Monte
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Old 06-13-2007, 06:05 PM
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Re: Importance of Shooter-Spotter Communication.

Oh Roy, you shouldn't have asked. The right hand screw rule is a physicist thing for dealing with vectors and rotating objects and electricity. However, it works for all right hand twist screw, nuts, and bolts. It is how I know which way to loosen a lug nut. I just cup my hand with my thumb sticking up and twist my fingers in a direction and immediately know which way to move the wrench.

Your humorous event at the range has taken a seriuos twist here. We are actually learning something.



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