Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Gunsmithing


Reply

Why is there no coatings used in rifle throats to slow erosion?

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #43  
Old 12-15-2011, 08:11 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: S.E. Missouri
Posts: 225
Re: Why is there no coatings used in rifle throats to slow erosion?

devins.....I hope you know that coming into this thread means that we'll have to pick your brain....hehe.

Enter a new spin on the original concept of coating:

How about a replaceable throat? Instead of attempting to make things in this harsh environment of a rifle throat PERMANENT, maybe we should roll with the punches so speak? Maybe accept the idea that the throats are going to erode no matter what normally-feasible means we attempt and instead, design a throat that we can replace once it becomes eroded to the point of affecting accuracy?

Here's what I'm tossing around in my mind right now. Maybe this can keep y'alls creativity flowing? Keep in mind this drawing is CRUDE. I can draw up most anything that we need TO SCALE on paper. I just can't do it in MS Paint..lol
Attached Thumbnails - Click to View Larger
Why is there no coatings used in rifle throats to slow erosion?-replaceable-rifle-throat-prototype-1.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-15-2011, 08:27 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: S.E. Missouri
Posts: 225
Re: Why is there no coatings used in rifle throats to slow erosion?

The ideology behind my idea is to engineer a "throat" that can be screwed into the action. The barrel can then be screwed into the new throat. The point is not only to allow the throat to be replaceable, but to engineer it so that the barrel life can be extended as long as possible. So it's quite possible that the throat itself may need to contain the throat, and possibly the first inch or two of the rifling as well.

What's understood already:
1. Machining costs are going to be higher initially than that of a standard barrel replacement.
2. The rifling would have to be "timed" between the throat and the barrel as these two become mated in assembly.
3. A clone of the original throat may need to be kept as a blueprint so that a smith could pull precise measurements from this clone to machine any future throats that a customer decides to purchase for THAT RIFLE and barrel.

What's unknown to me:
1. Is this idea as feasible as it seems to me? Or is there some massive oversight that makes it nearly impossible.
2. Can all three of these parts be mated as precisely as would be required so that one ends up with an equally accurate rifle, as that rifle was in it's unaltered form?
3. Is there a better way to incorporate a replaceable throat into an otherwise traditional bolt action rifle?
4. Can a system be designed to allow the DIY guy to change his own throats that he gets from his smith?

No one needs to worry about directly answering the above questions. I was just trying to establish what questions I have floating around in my brain in conjunction with the drawing above.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-15-2011, 10:20 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
Posts: 8,117
Re: Why is there no coatings used in rifle throats to slow erosion?

Here's some preliminary efforts by the army. It may be of use. Who knows? Not me?

I have no idea of what they are talking about nor what numbers Devin needs. Guess this is a shot in the dark. Though the formula looks intriguing.

I have a 270 AM that could be the sacrificial animal. A long way from 37 MM.

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...f&AD=ADA444069
__________________
I may be the slowest guy on the mountain . . . . but . . . . I'm on the mountain!
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12-15-2011, 11:08 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: S.E. Missouri
Posts: 225
Re: Why is there no coatings used in rifle throats to slow erosion?

Great link Roy!

That's a tremendous amount of raw data and a good read.

For our purposes, I took notice of the thermal conductivities of the different materials in comparison to the 4340 steel and the results that showed the area immediately in front of the throat as having the highest recorded temperature readings.

What that information tells me is if we were pursuing perfection here instead of mere betterment---OR---we were looking to obtain maximum barrel life regardless of cost involved, then a non-uniform coating thickness would be required ensuring that the coating would be at it's thickest in the pre-throat area and becoming thinner as it's moved forward toward the rifling.

Truth be told though.....this idea of a throat/chamber coating seems to have merit, but are any of us equipped well enough to do the proper R&D on a donor rifle to find out how far this takes us?

As far as devins' idea goes of making an insert.....that's probably a better solution in some respects. Although cost prohibitive on a commercial level, it definitely seems to have a great deal of potential.

Yo devins.......do you think perhaps instead of a bonded insert, that maybe there is a coating process that could work just as well---even if it's life was shorter? What I'm driving at here, is if we could possibly combine ideas so that we could coat a part that was easily replaceable (like the throat idea I posted above or similar), while leaving the rest of the rifle unchanged, then we could simplify AND save a great deal of cost, in R&D.

For instance-----machine 5 identical replaceable throats (if such is feasible in a rifle platform). Then we could test each one with different coatings and establish a useable life. OR we could choose what seems to be the most promising coating material in the beginning, and test differing thicknesses, again testing for end of life.

I believe that the second idea of choosing only one coating would allow us to significantly improve throat life while keeping costs within the stratosphere.




Come on folks.....chime in!!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12-16-2011, 07:39 AM
SPONSOR
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: on the Southern Plains
Posts: 1,149
Re: Why is there no coatings used in rifle throats to slow erosion?

Here, you're all worried about throat errosion. I have a barrel in my shop, from a competition rifle I built, that has a known 3000 rds. thru it (.260 Rem). It needs a lot more help than just the throat!
__________________
"Shoots real good!": definition; it didn't blow-up in my face. Not everything can be fixed on an internet forum!
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-16-2011, 07:54 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: S.E. Missouri
Posts: 225
Re: Why is there no coatings used in rifle throats to slow erosion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortgrass View Post
Here, you're all worried about throat errosion. I have a barrel in my shop, from a competition rifle I built, that has a known 3000 rds. thru it (.260 Rem). It needs a lot more help than just the throat!
shortgrass.......we're not trying to lower throat erosion on calibers that are known to have acceptable barrel life like the 260 you mentioned. We're trying to find a way to have a caliber like the 7RUM last longer than it's expected 700-1000 rounds.

If successful, we might be able to have our extreme overbore cartridges a little longer than we do now before needing a rebarrel.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12-16-2011, 08:13 AM
SPONSOR
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: on the Southern Plains
Posts: 1,149
Re: Why is there no coatings used in rifle throats to slow erosion?

Good luck guy! Your question has already been answered. Melonite/Nitride. Make the barrel harder (after all machne work has been preformed). It's a cost effective method! Around $100 bucks when you include shipping both ways! Everthing else I've seen here, far out weighs that cost wise. And believe me, cost is everything! Everyone needs to try to come up with a way to change the laws of physics, every now and again.
__________________
"Shoots real good!": definition; it didn't blow-up in my face. Not everything can be fixed on an internet forum!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: Why is there no coatings used in rifle throats to slow erosion?
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gun Coatings HUNTNMOON Long Range Hunting & Shooting 3 07-12-2011 05:41 PM
Long throats? linksmechanic Long Range Hunting & Shooting 11 11-29-2009 12:48 PM
Custom Build - Barrel Throats for 7mm 140 grain bullets Jerry D Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 1 03-11-2009 07:31 AM
short throats on Winchesters remingtonman_25_06 The Basics, Starting Out 5 06-10-2004 08:41 AM
short throats and long bullets???? JustC Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 17 04-29-2004 08:34 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC