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Who to use for Savage true job

 
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  #8  
Old 05-01-2013, 01:35 AM
jbj jbj is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 16
Re: Who to use for Savage true job

Quote:
Originally Posted by J E Custom View Post
I,m a little confused. Most people Square everything when blueprinting an action and this includes
the locking lugs on the bolt if they are not at 100% engagement and them Lap them for smoothness
(This helps ease the bolt lift).

Like all factory locking lugs they are rarely 100% and in some cases only one lug is in contact.

I have never heard not to square and lap the lugs if they are not in full contact.

In my opinion everything has to be square and true to the bore if you are going to call it blue printed.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM
The floating bolt head on the Savage obviates the need for lapping and they will square up on their own, and it will NOT help with bolt lift. Win and Rem actions benefit from this work, but not Savage.

Bolt lift can be helped with a lift kit, which is DIY, or having a smith time the bolt (only ever read about it)

Bedding will be a better $60 spent at a smith, or for the price of some Devcon and courage, bed it yourself.

If you want to true/square the action, barrel, lug and nut, it won't hurt, but seriously, shoot the gun first. You might be shocked at how well it shots.

And the advice of reading (obsessively) over at Savageshooters will give you a wealth of info. And the paid membership is well worth it.
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  #9  
Old 05-01-2013, 10:29 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,374
Re: Who to use for Savage true job

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbj View Post
The floating bolt head on the Savage obviates the need for lapping and they will square up on their own, and it will NOT help with bolt lift. Win and Rem actions benefit from this work, but not Savage.

Bolt lift can be helped with a lift kit, which is DIY, or having a smith time the bolt (only ever read about it)

Bedding will be a better $60 spent at a smith, or for the price of some Devcon and courage, bed it yourself.

If you want to true/square the action, barrel, lug and nut, it won't hurt, but seriously, shoot the gun first. You might be shocked at how well it shots.

And the advice of reading (obsessively) over at Savageshooters will give you a wealth of info. And the paid membership is well worth it.


I hear what some are saying and have to comment for those that are willing to listen.

One bit of advice to the NON GUNSMITHS. Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what
you see, Unless it is from a well known Gun Smith.

IF the bolt lugs and the bolt face are not square One will throw the other off during firing.
So if you have a square bolt face and the recoil lugs are not in 100 % engagement, when the
rifle fires, the bolt will thrust back and the un-squared receiver lugs will cant the bolt face to the
Chamber, Deforming the brass and effecting the accuracy.

The bolt face is held in place by a pin and a flex washer allowing the bolt face to recoil back against
the recoil surfaces of the receiver. If it is not square to the bore and the bolt lugs are not square to
the bolt face you will have a misalignment problem.

One symptom of this is that a fired case may not want to chamber unless it is in the same orientation
as when it was fired.

Savage did not design a floating head to avoid having to square the locking lugs, They did it to be
able to build One bolt and fit different bolt faces to it. (One size fits all logic).

So What others think or do is their business but I will always square everything on an action irregardless
who makes it.

J E CUSTOM
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  #10  
Old 05-01-2013, 11:00 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hot Springs, South Dakota
Posts: 504
Re: Who to use for Savage true job

I respect what you are saying J E Customs. Very Sound advice. Although more than one Savage gunsmith disagrees.

Below is a link to what was stated by a authoritative, well known Savage Gunsmith. He goes by the name Savageshooter. Anyone who knows Savage Gunsmiths knows his name.

Lug lapping tool for full contact.

Last edited by JackinSD; 05-01-2013 at 11:28 AM. Reason: correction
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  #11  
Old 05-01-2013, 12:47 PM
jbj jbj is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 16
Re: Who to use for Savage true job

Quote:
Originally Posted by J E Custom View Post
I hear what some are saying and have to comment for those that are willing to listen.

One bit of advice to the NON GUNSMITHS. Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what
you see, Unless it is from a well known Gun Smith.

IF the bolt lugs and the bolt face are not square One will throw the other off during firing.
So if you have a square bolt face and the recoil lugs are not in 100 % engagement, when the
rifle fires, the bolt will thrust back and the un-squared receiver lugs will cant the bolt face to the
Chamber, Deforming the brass and effecting the accuracy.

The bolt face is held in place by a pin and a flex washer allowing the bolt face to recoil back against
the recoil surfaces of the receiver. If it is not square to the bore and the bolt lugs are not square to
the bolt face you will have a misalignment problem.

One symptom of this is that a fired case may not want to chamber unless it is in the same orientation
as when it was fired.

Savage did not design a floating head to avoid having to square the locking lugs, They did it to be
able to build One bolt and fit different bolt faces to it. (One size fits all logic).

So What others think or do is their business but I will always square everything on an action irregardless
who makes it.

J E CUSTOM
J E - The link you posted, as well as conversations with a few Savage gunsmiths is why I posted what I did.

I know that Savage designed the floating bolt head for ease of manufacturing and parts compatibility. My point was that it benefited us by making it less necessary to correct via lapping for accuracy purposes. Fred Moreo did a pretty good job of explaining here Savage Shooters - Fred Moreo - Timging & Truing Explained

I hear his CS isn't the most timely, but his work is highly spoken of.

I am in no way discounting your advice or knowledge and experience in the area, and am interested to understand more of your process vs others. (By the way, you make very nice looking rifles)

Thanks
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  #12  
Old 05-01-2013, 03:48 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Frankfort, Kentucky
Posts: 301
Re: Who to use for Savage true job

Might have already been posted, but there is a guy that sells bolt lift kits on savageshooters.
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  #13  
Old 05-01-2013, 04:00 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,374
Re: Who to use for Savage true job

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbj View Post
J E - The link you posted, as well as conversations with a few Savage gunsmiths is why I posted what I did.

I know that Savage designed the floating bolt head for ease of manufacturing and parts compatibility. My point was that it benefited us by making it less necessary to correct via lapping for accuracy purposes. Fred Moreo did a pretty good job of explaining here Savage Shooters - Fred Moreo - Timging & Truing Explained

I hear his CS isn't the most timely, but his work is highly spoken of.

I am in no way discounting your advice or knowledge and experience in the area, and am interested to understand more of your process vs others. (By the way, you make very nice looking rifles)

Thanks

Thanks for the complement on the appearance of my rifles. I think that a custom rifle should look good
as well as shoot good.

Everyone has different ways of dealing with the accuracy issue. Some feel that some things are not
worth the effort because you may only gain a few thousandths in group size. Others Like my self
believe that any operation that will true everything to the bore is worth the effort.

I feel that is the process of elimination, If I resolve every issue that I can I have a better chance
of producing a sub 1/4 MOA rifle. That includes starting with the best barrel, A trued action, A quality
stock, Best Trigger and a good pillar bedding.

If all of this is done the only things that should lessen the accuracy is the Loads and the shooter.

A properly assembled rifle should take away any excuses for poor accuracy except those two.

I will be the first to admit that I am anal about everything being as good as I can get it, And I don't
want to be second guessing myself as to what should have done or could have done when I start
shooting it and It doesn't meet my expectations.

The main advantage is consistency, and the ability to shoot well with any load. and have several
loads that will out shoot Me on any given day.

I never rate anyones work until I have to dissemble there work and find things are over looked,
or simply not important enough to bother with in there mind.



I don't post my rates because I have much lower overhead than some and it would not be apples to apples
pricing. I will say that it cost less blue print a Remington than a for a Savage because there are two more
set ups because of the "Floating Bolt Head" (Setups are time consuming).


Having a V Block in a stock does not guarantee accuracy (Some do well and others don't)
Most of the inserted stocks have a built in flaw, The pillars that should touch the bottom to work
correctly DON'T. when I bed one of these I first machine a insert to fit in the pillar that extends
up to touch the action. Look at your HSP and you will see that the pillars are below the stock line.
This produces bending moment in the action when tightening the bedding screws.


J E CUSTOM
__________________
"PRESS ON"
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  #14  
Old 05-01-2013, 04:34 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 155
Re: Who to use for Savage true job

Quote:
Originally Posted by J E Custom View Post
Thanks for the complement on the appearance of my rifles. I think that a custom rifle should look good
as well as shoot good.

Everyone has different ways of dealing with the accuracy issue. Some feel that some things are not
worth the effort because you may only gain a few thousandths in group size. Others Like my self
believe that any operation that will true everything to the bore is worth the effort.

I feel that is the process of elimination, If I resolve every issue that I can I have a better chance
of producing a sub 1/4 MOA rifle. That includes starting with the best barrel, A trued action, A quality
stock, Best Trigger and a good pillar bedding.

If all of this is done the only things that should lessen the accuracy is the Loads and the shooter.

A properly assembled rifle should take away any excuses for poor accuracy except those two.

I will be the first to admit that I am anal about everything being as good as I can get it, And I don't
want to be second guessing myself as to what should have done or could have done when I start
shooting it and It doesn't meet my expectations.

The main advantage is consistency, and the ability to shoot well with any load. and have several
loads that will out shoot Me on any given day.

I never rate anyones work until I have to dissemble there work and find things are over looked,
or simply not important enough to bother with in there mind.



I don't post my rates because I have much lower overhead than some and it would not be apples to apples
pricing. I will say that it cost less blue print a Remington than a for a Savage because there are two more
set ups because of the "Floating Bolt Head" (Setups are time consuming).


Having a V Block in a stock does not guarantee accuracy (Some do well and others don't)
Most of the inserted stocks have a built in flaw, The pillars that should touch the bottom to work
correctly DON'T. when I bed one of these I first machine a insert to fit in the pillar that extends
up to touch the action. Look at your HSP and you will see that the pillars are below the stock line.
This produces bending moment in the action when tightening the bedding screws.


J E CUSTOM

How do I get your rates then? I want to compare? Do you have a site?
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