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Timing a Barrel, how much impact in Long Range?

 
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Old 12-27-2007, 12:12 PM
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Timing a Barrel, how much impact in Long Range?

Happy Holidays everyone,

I've been doing a lot of reading about gunsmithing and have a question. I understand that for extreme accuracy, a barrel is timed so the natural arc of the bore is pointing directly up at the muzzle.

My question is, how much difference does it make?

For example, with a Savage and barrel nut configuration, the headspace is set with barrel turn so timing the barrel is impossible.

It make sense in my mind to have a barrel timed for ultimate precision. Maybe this is one of the reasons that gunsmiths like to setup Savage's in the same way that other actions are setup (with a shoulder and no barrel nut)?

Just curious if anyone has any objective observations, or is timing the barrel one of those things that is 'just done'?



AJ
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Old 12-27-2007, 07:39 PM
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Well think about it ,if the natural curve of the barrel is to the left then the bullet is getting started that way and that will only increase with range and theoreticaly speeking if the barrel is indexed pointing to the left then the windage is gonna be differant to one side than the other :eek: and thats gonna suck trying to find a dope sheep out on that one.

I think that you would be supprised at the amount of guys that build accurate rifles for a living that are not concerned at all with this , especialt target shooters as their target is gonna be at prepositioned ranges each time and only the windage has to be adjusted most of the time. On all of the guns I have built I indexed the barrel with the curve pointing up just because I feel that little extra is worth worrying about. I have only heard one other gun builder that has mentioned this and thats Nathen Dagley ,this is a big reason that I endorse him whole heartedly as these small attentions to detail all apy off.

With the Savage its not that hard to install a barrel with it being indexed cuve up , as long as the chamber is not finished cut. The two i did with the barrel nut I installed the barrel so that with the nut snug and the curve up the bolt would just close , the barrel and action were then both whitness marked for the reinstall , the barrel was pulled and then reamed just like you would with a conventionaly shouldered barrel , one of these was done iwht a pull through reamer that worked realy well , it takes two people , one to turn the reamer and one to apply pressure to the reamer with the bolt. Once the bolt closes the reamer is turned with no pressure on the closed bolt till it turns freely , generaly about on revolution. is each case the chambers were cut to the tight side of min spec so that they would just get snug the last 10% of the bolt closing.
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Old 12-27-2007, 08:43 PM
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James,

Thanks, what I meant was 'just installing a pre-fit Savage barrel' you wouldn't be able to index. Obviously if you are cutting the chamber, you can index it.

I just watched a DVD by Grizzly that had Gordy Gritters chambering a barrel; and indexing it is one of the things that he did.

Can you tell me a little more about 'pull through reamers'? I suppose with one of those, you could order a short chambered barrel and finish it without need of a lathe?

Thanks,
AJ
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Last edited by AJ Peacock; 12-27-2007 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 12-27-2007, 08:47 PM
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Excuse me fella!!

What in the world are you guys talkin' about?

"natural arc of the bore" what the heck is that?

Never heard of such a thing:confused:
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Old 12-27-2007, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royinidaho View Post
Excuse me fella!!

What in the world are you guys talkin' about?

"natural arc of the bore" what the heck is that?

Never heard of such a thing:confused:
When a hole is drilled in a barrel, it isn't perfectly straight (even though the barrel maker strives for it to be perfect). It will not be centered perfectly in the barrel and it will wander a little (hopefully just a single very slight arc) from one end to another. The really picky smith's will want that slight arc to be indexed to point straight up at the muzzle.

AJ
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:05 PM
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Thats right , theirs no way to drill a hole that deep and have it strait , so some barrel makers will straiten the barrel and this is major reason that some barrel "wander around" so much when they heat up because of the stree that was introduced into them during the straitening process. supposedly Dan Lilja is the man to drill deep strait holes and supposedly Lilja barrel have less curve than any others.

I have tried several barrel makers and have found that Kreiger and Hart barrel are pretty damn strait , never tried a Lilja or Rock Creek or any of the newer barrels. I spun the barrel in a static rest thats desgined to check the straigthness of pump shafts (like the units desgined to check your loaded ammo's runout) with the barrel supported at one end and the middle , I put a range rod in the breech end and the muzzel and set up dials on both and gave it a turn , you would be amazed how much a little last word dial moves on the muzzel end.

Like I mentioned before you would be supprised how may guys don't worry about it when they build their guns and I'm talking about guys that build world class long range target rigs , its probably realy nothing to be concerned with but I feel that every little thing I can do to stack the ods in my favor is worth the extra effort.

Guys that bitch and whine about the prices that smiths charge to blueprint an action and install the barrel just don't understand , if they new the hassel that goes into doing a quality job they would relize what a bargen they are getting !!!
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:16 PM
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Thanks for the enlightenment fellas!

I'd never tho't or heard of that.

Regarding the smith's worth: It amazes me that they work for so little. Pretty much like the pilot that flies me around taking aerial photos. I multiplied his asking fee by 3 so I'd feel good about it. The only thing between my butt and the ground is air in that pecker wood 1974 Balanca Scout and he's the guy that keeps it in shape.

I just wish I could get the rifles returning a little revenue once in awhile;)
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