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Min or Max Saami Spec Reamers

 
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  #1  
Old 08-15-2011, 09:04 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
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Min or Max Saami Spec Reamers

I am going to order some new Brux barrels and I have a couple of questions concerning reamers.I do not want to turn necks. . Contours will be #4, 26 inch long and #5's, 27 1/2 long. Barrels ordering for 300wsm, 300 ultra, 338 ultra. Bullets I am going to use:TTSX's 165gr- 300wsm, 200gr TTSX's-300 ultra, 225gr TTSX's- 338 ultra. One gunsmith has min saami spec reamers and the other one has Max saami reamers.
1: Which reamers do you gunsmiths use? Min saami spec or Max saami spec reamers?
2: What freebore do you recommend on the ultras?
3: If i go with a shorter freebore what are the pros and cons?
4: Am I going to loose velocity going with a shorter freebore with increased pressure?
5: Both gunsmiths use PTG reamers.
Any other things I might have missed.
Thanks Todd
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  #2  
Old 08-15-2011, 10:33 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,421
Re: Min or Max Saami Spec Reamers

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunaddict View Post
I am going to order some new Brux barrels and I have a couple of questions concerning reamers.I do not want to turn necks. . Contours will be #4, 26 inch long and #5's, 27 1/2 long. Barrels ordering for 300wsm, 300 ultra, 338 ultra. Bullets I am going to use:TTSX's 165gr- 300wsm, 200gr TTSX's-300 ultra, 225gr TTSX's- 338 ultra. One gunsmith has min saami spec reamers and the other one has Max saami reamers.
1: Which reamers do you gunsmiths use? Min saami spec or Max saami spec reamers?
2: What freebore do you recommend on the ultras?
3: If i go with a shorter freebore what are the pros and cons?
4: Am I going to loose velocity going with a shorter freebore with increased pressure?
5: Both gunsmiths use PTG reamers.
Any other things I might have missed.
Thanks Todd

A lot of good questions.

1= I use standard SAAMI Reamers. There is no such thing as a minimum and a maximum SAMMI.
They are eather SAMMI or not. What they are talking is something other than SAMMI like
tight necks, or a change in free bore, lead angle ETC. These are called custom grinds/reamers.
I do not recomend any custom reamer unless the person has special needs and knows how
to deal with them.

2=I recomend standard free bores on all high pressure cartriges like the Ultras and the WSMs,
because they keep the pressure under control and allow higher velocities.

3=Shorter free bores increase pressure and lower velocities.

4=Normally you have to reduce the powder charge and will lose velocity at safe pressures.
(A good example is the big 378 based Weatherby cartriges like the 30/378). If you do away
or reduce it you will not be able to shoot Weatherby factory ammo because it is loaded for
maximum velocity and will be over loads in the modified chamber.

5=PT&g. Clymer and Dave Manson all make good reamers.

A side note: most gunsmiths have a reamer charge (You may not see it but it's in there most
of the time) or they rent reamers that may be ok or they could be bad. I recomend that if you
are going to the trouble to build a/several custom rifles. Buy the reamer new and keep it so if
you ever re barrel the rifle you have the same reamer. and if you dont re use it you can sell
it for more than half the price of the reamer especially when it has been used only once.

The gunsmiths should not object to you furnishing your own reamer if it is new.

A new reamer is some of the best money spent. (Standard reamers are around $100.00).

There is one other thing about out of SAAMI spec. reamers. The dies should be custom to work
well. and all standard dies are based on "Standard Reamers".

Just my opinion for what it's worth.

J E CUSTOM
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  #3  
Old 08-16-2011, 06:30 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 829
Re: Min or Max Saami Spec Reamers

I would disagree with JE. If you go to the SAAMI specs manual, you will see chamber drawings and the dimensions for nearly every cartridge that exists. Most of the dimensions are give with a + or - measurement. This allows all manufacturers to keep their products as universal as possible.
If you order a Min. spec. reamer, and plan on using factory ammo, you may encounter some ammo that will not chamber in your rifle. Since you are going the "custom" route, I would assume that you are going to handload your ammo. If this is the case you should be fine with a Min. Spec. reamer.

P.S. If you think SAAMI is SAMMI, buy a box or, bag of any reloading component and start measuring. You'll soon discover the + or - I referred to earlier.
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  #4  
Old 08-16-2011, 07:29 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,421
Re: Min or Max Saami Spec Reamers

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieHarren View Post
I would disagree with JE. If you go to the SAAMI specs manual, you will see chamber drawings and the dimensions for nearly every cartridge that exists. Most of the dimensions are give with a + or - measurement. This allows all manufacturers to keep their products as universal as possible.
If you order a Min. spec. reamer, and plan on using factory ammo, you may encounter some ammo that will not chamber in your rifle. Since you are going the "custom" route, I would assume that you are going to handload your ammo. If this is the case you should be fine with a Min. Spec. reamer.

P.S. If you think SAAMI is SAMMI, buy a box or, bag of any reloading component and start measuring. You'll soon discover the + or - I referred to earlier.

Sorry: I would have to disagree with that because the SAMMI spec gives a dimension +/- for the
manufactures to build there ammo to so it will fit in any chamber. There is little or no tolerance
for the reamer maker.

The Reamers are a different story. The reamer makers have a spect that they have to build
to in order to call it a standard reamer.And unless you ask for something different from the reamer
manufacture you will get a SAMMI Dimension reamer that is within .001 to .003 of there Specs.

The ammo makers can deviate much more. Winchester is one of the ammo makers that load
all of there ammo much smaller to fit in any chamber.

The point is that if you want a standard "SAMMI" reamer it will be as close to the SAMMI spec
as possible or within the reamer makers quality standards.

Ammo and dies are like you said they are not always right or even close to the SAMMI standards.

My explanation was about the reamers, Not the ammo or the die tolerances.

I have ordered many reamers and have ask about subtle changes and they said that will be a
custom reamer because it is not SAMMI spec.

In all fairness to your response though, I have never ask for a Min or Max SAMMI spec reamer
Because I would be afraid of what the reamer makers response would be.

At best, if you don't mind paying more for a reamer you can ask for anything. but it requires
re-programing their equipment, thus the extra cost.

I am Not being argumentative just trying to clarify the difference between a standard reamer
and a custom reamer.

J E CUSTOM
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  #5  
Old 08-16-2011, 08:27 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fredericksburg VA
Posts: 4,120
Re: Min or Max Saami Spec Reamers

Call Dave Kiff at PTG and ask about a "minimum SAAMI" spec reamer for your cartridges. He will gladly explain what that is.

tell him the bullets you plan on shooting and he will tell you what reamer specs he recommends. He will email you copy of the reamer prints so you can compare and make your own decisions.

BTW he provides minimum SAAMI spec reamers all the time to the 1k crowd, so it is pretty common. Do not worrry.

BH
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  #6  
Old 08-16-2011, 09:00 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 420
Re: Min or Max Saami Spec Reamers

David Kiff, to the best of my knowledge will manufacture chamber reams to practically any dimensions imaginable, he has made several wildcat reams for me. I think the non descriptive terms of min and max are the culprit. Once a ream no longer complies with the specs it is no longer sam, but is based on sam. I use the adjustable length throat reamers and set the seating length where I want the bullet to stuff at. Weatherby makes their freebore so long that I almost always shorten them but factory ammunition is not a good idea and the barrels are not engraved as being a weatherby cartridge they are marked with diameter and wildcat, an example would be .338 Wildcat instead of 338-378 because they are no longer a 338-378 even if you cant tell the difference by looking at them.
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  #7  
Old 08-16-2011, 07:56 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Posts: 308
Re: Min or Max Saami Spec Reamers

I will call Dave Kiff Monday and ask him what he recommends. I was wanting to order my barrels Monday. Thanks for your help.
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