close
Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Gunsmithing

Reply

Mexican Mauser barrel thread?

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #8  
Unread 08-04-2010, 11:16 AM
SPONSOR
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: on the Southern Plains
Posts: 1,873
Re: Mexican Mauser barrel thread?

Small ring w/ small thread should probably be limited to 6.5x55, 7x57 class of cartridges. I've seem the 6.5-284 on Large Ring/large thread '98's. The two I've had come to my shop have had feeding problems and took some time to fix. There are some Large Ring/small thread rifles around (Turks). Some were made by DWM and some were made in Turkey if memory serves. One of those, in good shape, would be OK for .308 Win. class of cartridges I would think. I've built many rifles over the years using '98's,,,,, because I can do all the work myself. If you have to pay to have the work done there are better choices for actions to be considered. Also, my opinion is that a Mauser '98 makes a fine hunting rifle, but I don't think I'd build a target rifle using one. Again, more and better choices for such a project. Mausers that aren't a rusted/pitted piece of junk are getting harder to find,,, and the price is up, too.
__________________
"Shoots real good!": definition; it didn't blow-up in my face. 1993 graduate Montgomery Community College 2yr. gunsmithing program

Last edited by shortgrass; 08-04-2010 at 03:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  •   #9  
    Unread 10-27-2014, 06:28 PM
    Junior Member
     
    Join Date: Dec 2011
    Posts: 2
    Re: Mexican Mauser barrel thread?

    This post is pretty old, but I wanted to add a bit to it. First the 1910 Mexican Mauser is a small ring Model 98, and has the features of the M 98. The Mexican Mauser 1910s were produced intermittently in Mexico of modern steel, starting in 1910. It continued in production up to 1935/36, when it morphed into the Model 1936 Mexican Mauser. The Modelo 1936 included some features resembling the 1903 Springfield - a pistol grip stock, mimicking a Type C 03 stock, similar band spacing, and a knurled cocking piece (which functions differently than the 03). Basically, it is nothing more than a Model 1910 with a new firing pin head added. M1936 bolts fit and function in the M1910, and vice-versa. IIRC, an additional gas port was added on the left side. The M1936 was then modified in 1954 by lengthening the magazine box and re-barreling to allow it to use the 30-06, which the U.S. was handing out like candy at that point in time. The main point is that the 1910, 1936 and 1954 Mexican Mausers are all Model 98s, and were all produced within Mexico from quality steels. The late Eugene, Oregon custom gunsmith Larry Brace told me they were his favorite actions, and he hoped to make a .358 Winchester on one for elk hunting in Oregon. Larry did have all of the 1910s he worked on re heat treated by an outfit in Salt Lake City. When slicked up, they are very smooth and fast. Have seen sporters built on them in .243 Win, 257 Roberts, .257 A.I, 7x57, .284 Win. On the 1954, just 30-06.
    Reply With Quote

      #10  
    Unread 10-28-2014, 05:23 AM
    SPONSOR
     
    Join Date: Mar 2010
    Location: on the Southern Plains
    Posts: 1,873
    Re: Mexican Mauser barrel thread?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DB404 View Post
    This post is pretty old, but I wanted to add a bit to it. First the 1910 Mexican Mauser is a small ring Model 98, and has the features of the M 98. The Mexican Mauser 1910s were produced intermittently in Mexico of modern steel, starting in 1910. It continued in production up to 1935/36, when it morphed into the Model 1936 Mexican Mauser. The Modelo 1936 included some features resembling the 1903 Springfield - a pistol grip stock, mimicking a Type C 03 stock, similar band spacing, and a knurled cocking piece (which functions differently than the 03). Basically, it is nothing more than a Model 1910 with a new firing pin head added. M1936 bolts fit and function in the M1910, and vice-versa. IIRC, an additional gas port was added on the left side. The M1936 was then modified in 1954 by lengthening the magazine box and re-barreling to allow it to use the 30-06, which the U.S. was handing out like candy at that point in time. The main point is that the 1910, 1936 and 1954 Mexican Mausers are all Model 98s, and were all produced within Mexico from quality steels. The late Eugene, Oregon custom gunsmith Larry Brace told me they were his favorite actions, and he hoped to make a .358 Winchester on one for elk hunting in Oregon. Larry did have all of the 1910s he worked on re heat treated by an outfit in Salt Lake City. When slicked up, they are very smooth and fast. Have seen sporters built on them in .243 Win, 257 Roberts, .257 A.I, 7x57, .284 Win. On the 1954, just 30-06.
    Modern steels in 1910 & 1936? You need to brush up on your metallurgy. All Mausers of that time were made of low carbon steel and case hardened. Modern alloy steels, and steel manufacturing in general, didn't come about until the late 1930s and , really, in the 1940s, during WW2. Why did the 'smith have them re-heat treated? Probably because the heat treating methods at the time those receivers were manufactured were quit "sub-standard" by the methods employed today. Neither the steel used or the method to heat treat it should be considered "modern". Are these receivers usable? Sure, as long as their limitations are known and understood. But they are "ancient" technology in their manufacture. Nothing "modern" about them!
    __________________
    "Shoots real good!": definition; it didn't blow-up in my face. 1993 graduate Montgomery Community College 2yr. gunsmithing program
    Reply With Quote
      #11  
    Unread 10-29-2014, 11:00 PM
    Junior Member
     
    Join Date: Dec 2011
    Posts: 2
    Re: Mexican Mauser barrel thread?

    Unfortunately Shortgrass, it appears that in your rush to make a point, you've taken my use of the term 'modern' completely out of context. Allow me to clarify my prior comments.

    Since other readers might not be as well versed as you appear to be in the history of the steel industry of Latin America, the following comments are included for their consideration. That being said, it is to be noted that the steel used to manufacture the indigenous small ring Model 98 Mexican Mauser 1910 was in fact, quite modern when judged by the metallurgical standards of the day. That steel was produced at the first steel mill to be built in Latin America, owned by the Compania Fundidora de Fierro y Acero de Monterrey, in Monterrey, Mexico. The mill was constructed in 1900; it was a pet project of the government of Porfirio Diaz, and was specifically designed to produce steel equal to the very best steels produced in either Europe or the US, at that time. The mill was designed to utilize the most advanced steel production technologies then available; it was upgraded as new technology became available. At the very least, the steel used to make the initial run of 1910 Mexican small ring 98 Mauser would have been equivalent to the steel in use at that time in Germany for 98 production, essentially 1035 low carbon steel, which was then surface carburized for wear resistance. The Mexican 1910 was essentially a copy of the small ring model 98s they had purchased from DWM (in 1902) and the very similar model they purchased from Steyr in 1907; both were derivatives of the Mauser 98a. FN produced a large ring model 98 for Mexico, the Model 1924; none of my sources show FN as ever producing a small ring 98 for Mexico.

    Mexican small ring 98 pattern Mausers, Models of 1910, 1936 and 1954, were produced internally, of high quality steel (by contemporaneous standards). Due to metallurgy and design, they are stronger and safer than previous Model 93, 94, 95, and 96 Mausers. They are head and shoulders above any Spanish produced Mauser 93 or 95. As Shortgrass points out, time moves on and there are better steels and heat treatment processes around now than were available anywhere in the world in 1910; additionally, milling machines and other production tools have advanced significantly as well. Still, a non-abused 1910 Mexican small ring action will be equally as strong as the contemporary small ring actions coming out of Europe. And any properly surface carburized 1035 steel small action Model 98 Mauser will be safe with the cartridges they were originally chambered for, plus others of similar intensity. Personally, I would much rather trust my health to firing a non-abused example of the Mexican 1910 than to a similarly non-abused US Springfield 1903 also produced in 1910. In regard to your conjecture as to why Larry Brace sent his 1910 projects in for re heat treating, I can repeat what he told me, which was that although he had never run across a 1910 that was "too soft" he preferred to have them all re heat treated uniformly, for potential liability issues, as he had no control over their diet after they left his shop.

    Last edited by DB404; 10-29-2014 at 11:03 PM. Reason: misnaming
    Reply With Quote
      #12  
    Unread 10-30-2014, 11:01 AM
    SPONSOR
     
    Join Date: Mar 2010
    Location: on the Southern Plains
    Posts: 1,873
    Re: Mexican Mauser barrel thread?

    Out of text? I don't think so. Your post just wasn't clear. There are at least two generations who haven't a clue about American history, let alone any history of steels, their manufacture and the advancements made. To them, when you use the word "modern", the steel of 1900 is the same as that supplied by current metal suppliers. The manufacture of steels and their processing has come along way since the small Ring Mausers were made. The heat treater in Salt Lake you're referring to is probably Blanchard Metal Processing. I've used them in the past.
    __________________
    "Shoots real good!": definition; it didn't blow-up in my face. 1993 graduate Montgomery Community College 2yr. gunsmithing program
    Reply With Quote
      #13  
    Unread 12-01-2015, 07:13 AM
    Junior Member
     
    Join Date: Oct 2009
    Location: Afton, Wyoming
    Posts: 23
    Re: Mexican Mauser barrel thread?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shortgrass View Post
    Small ring w/ small thread should probably be limited to 6.5x55, 7x57 class of cartridges. I've seem the 6.5-284 on Large Ring/large thread '98's. The two I've had come to my shop have had feeding problems and took some time to fix. There are some Large Ring/small thread rifles around (Turks). Some were made by DWM and some were made in Turkey if memory serves. One of those, in good shape, would be OK for .308 Win. class of cartridges I would think. I've built many rifles over the years using '98's,,,,, because I can do all the work myself. If you have to pay to have the work done there are better choices for actions to be considered. Also, my opinion is that a Mauser '98 makes a fine hunting rifle, but I don't think I'd build a target rifle using one. Again, more and better choices for such a project. Mausers that aren't a rusted/pitted piece of junk are getting harder to find,,, and the price is up, too.
    All Small Ring Mauser (Except the Small RING 98) should only be chambered into the original caliber or one of the same pressures such as if it was a 8x57 then one could go .300 Savage, 6.5x55mm, 7x57mm.
    Yes I have seen some in .243 ect. but this is dancing with the devil on his own ground.
    The only non 98 that one could possibly build a slightly higher pressure generating cartridge on is the Swedish Mauser's and no other . One still needs to use very good judgment in choosing the caliber.
    There are just to many other stronger actions out there which are made of modern steels with the proper strength to hold the pressures generated with modern powders to destroy a weaker and historically significant rifle design.
    Any one that would do so is a gun crank and is dangerous!
    Reply With Quote
      #14  
    Unread 12-01-2015, 01:25 PM
    Platinum Member
     
    Join Date: Jun 2004
    Location: Texas
    Posts: 1,073
    Re: Mexican Mauser barrel thread?

    PBR driver:

    Thanks for a timely post. Between Shortgrass and DB404, I got a lot of good history and technical info.
    I had arrived at the same conclusion you did about using a small ring anything for high intensity cartridges. Only one I would even consider is the Swede, but still wouldn't chamber any of the modern high pressure cartridges in it. Carl Gustafs built some .308 target rifles on their small rings, and also some .30-06 hunting rifles called the Lynx, so I can only conclude that they presented no safety issues. Doesn't change my mind though. I still wouldn't do it.
    I would be comfortable chambering a large ring action for some of the modern cartridges, except for Gewehr 98's and late war German KAR actions. Maybe overly cautious, but.....

    What makes your post timely is that a good friend asked me this morning about drilling and tapping a Mexican Mauser and later on, rebarreling it. He probably won't end up doing either after I told him that a 6.5x55 or a 7x57 were his only choices if I did it. Hate to disappoint a good friend, but I have the luxury. Someone had ground the crest and date off the receiver ring so I don't know when or where it was made, but it did have the knurled firing pin knob, so probably a late model.
    Also that the rough ground receiver ring would have to be cleaned up in a mill and the front base shimmed to bring it level with the rear base.

    I would leave it like it is and move on.

    Thanks to all for the history, info, and opinions.

    Tom
    __________________
    Texas State Rifle Association Life Member
    NRA Endowment Life Member

    A big fast bullet will beat a little fast bullet every time
    Reply With Quote
    Reply

    Bookmarks

    Thread Tools
    Display Modes


    Similar Threads for: Mexican Mauser barrel thread?
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    Barrel thread protecters POA change? elmerdeer Gunsmithing 3 05-13-2010 01:09 PM
    New barrel will not thread into action McKinneyMike Gunsmithing 3 04-27-2010 10:17 AM
    300 weatherby barrel thread 450matt Gunsmithing 0 01-01-2010 09:13 PM
    Barrel Thread Wayno Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics 1 07-24-2009 07:59 PM
    Savage barrel thread size wadedc General Discussion 7 05-17-2007 09:06 PM


    All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:31 PM.


    Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
    All content ©2010-2015 Long Range Hunting, LLC