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LongRifles Inc. first groups

 
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  #1  
Old 06-29-2010, 08:57 PM
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LongRifles Inc. first groups

I finally had some time to shoot my rifle that Chad built for me. Let me preface this by saying I'm not the best shot from the bench. I can maintain minute of deer and minute of elk but my bench skills might not compare to some of you. I have been reloading for about 30 years, mainly because I'm cheap and didn't want to pay for factory ammo. I've always been very meticulous about reloading but after discovering LHR and reading the info shared by a lot of you I've learned that I didn't know as much as I thought I did and now I have started to become very ANAL. Any way on to the groups.
The barrel break in consisted of shooting one shot and clean for two shots, then two shots and clean for four rounds. After the first shot I could see a little copper at the muzzle. I ran one patch of Sweets and let it soak for a couple minutes, followed by a patches soaked in BBS wrapped around a 22-250 nylon brush. It took about 10 patches to remove all of the copper. The second round showed a little copper like the first and was cleaned using the same method. I then fired two rounds before cleaning. There was very little copper visible and it only took a couple patches to remove. After the second round of two shots there was no copper visible. So I figured that was good enough and moved on to loading some rounds for groups. My break in rounds were loaded in one grain increments from 63 to 66 grains of H-4831 over Federal 215 primers with Berger 168 VLD's set .010 off the lands. There were no pressure up to 66 grains so I figured I would start there.
For my group rounds I used virgin Remington brass with uniformed primer pockets, flash holes deburred and mouths chamfered inside and out, 66 gr H-4831, Federal 215 primers and Berger 168 VLD's. I followed Bergers recommendation of firing two three shot groups at varying seating depths.
The first were designated as O and set .001 off the lands. Groups 2 through 4 were set at .040, .080 and .120 off the lands.
The red numbers at the top are the order that the groups were fired. The small numbers in the bottom of the circle are the order in which those of different seating depths were fired.
Group 1
Fire one fouling shot, wait a few minutes then fire for group.
I believe I moved as I fired shot number 1 or that group would have been better
Clean and fire one fouling shot
Group 2
Fire one shot and wait a few minutes for barrel to cool between shots
clean and fire one fouling shot
Group 3
Same as #2 but didn't clean
Group 4
Fire one shot and wait a few minutes for barrel to cool between shots
clean and fire one fouling shot
Group 5
Fire three shots
Didn't clean
Group 6
Fire three shots
Didn't clean
Groups 7 & 8
All 6 shots were fired without cleaning

After the last 12 shots were fired there was no copper visible and the barrel cleaned up quickly.
All squares on the targets are 1"X1"
I'm hesitant to post these groups because I don't want my lack of shooting skills to reflect negatively on Chad's build quality. I am quite confident this rifle will shoot far better then I'm capable. I also appreciate those of you here who are willing to share your knowledge and information so I'm open to comments and suggestions.
Wes




Last edited by WesB; 06-30-2010 at 08:08 AM.
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  #2  
Old 07-07-2010, 02:25 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 753
Re: LongRifles Inc. first groups

Wes,

Forgive me as I just scanned through your writings. If I understand it right once you got the clean/scrub portion out of the way you were shooting groups with a progressive increase in powder charge.

If this is correct then it appears that the gun wants more powder. The groups seem to start large and round and then begin to tighten up as the powder charge is increased. If you took the rifle apart ensure the magazine box isn't binding up at all. It should have some wiggle room and be able to float up/down a bit. Also ensure the guard screws are snugged up. 40inchlbs is the max I recommend using.

From what I've learned, a round group that runs big tends to suggest a slow bullet. Dropping the hammer and gaining some speed generally tightens things up. Bergers can be a little fussy sometimes as well. Great bullets and capable of great accuracy. Just a little more work as they are a little more sensitive to seating depth.

vertical stringing can mean a number of things: I don't see much of it here though.

1. Bedding (pretty sure that's not the case here)
2. Seating depths aren't consistent
3. Neck tension too high
4. Powder charges aren't consistent
5. Primer seating isn't consistent
6. Weak striker spring (not the case here as its a new action)
7. Poor striker protrusion (not applicable here either)
8. Junk scope?
9. Parallax set right?
10. YOU (shooter) can't hold elevation worth a chit

Keep at it!

C
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Last edited by NesikaChad; 07-07-2010 at 02:31 PM.
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  #3  
Old 07-07-2010, 04:15 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
Posts: 8,232
Re: LongRifles Inc. first groups

I read things different than Chad, that all loads were 66 gr of powder. I also figure that your using Fed 215s not 215Ms.

I liked Chad's list of 10 things. I'm in category #10

My observation is that the groups are more or less the same shape varying more in size (except for a couple). I'm betting that you're capable of even smaller groups than the one very nice one.

My recommendation would be to keep in mind that you're dancing with a lady not arm wrestling an Amazon. Plus be conscious of your finger placement on the trigger.

I apologize in advance, not wanting to offend, while not knowing of your experience.

I'd sure like to spend an afternoon or two with that lady and let her teach me to shoot.
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  #4  
Old 07-07-2010, 05:40 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: OK
Posts: 2,145
Re: LongRifles Inc. first groups

Stop cleaning and start shooting, You cleaned enough now that the barrel is good and broke in start shooting more. Some barrels need 5 or 6 rounds to settle down, you may be cleaning everytime the barrel wants to start to come together.

Your not going to hurt the thing by shooting 50 or more rounds between cleanings.
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  #5  
Old 07-07-2010, 09:33 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 102
Re: LongRifles Inc. first groups

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. I appreciate the suggestions.
Chad
You misinterpreted the post. I only used progressive increases in powder during my break in period to check for pressure signs. All loads for groups were loaded with 66 gr. H-4831. I only varied the seating depth of the bullets on these loads. The numbers written in pen on the inside top of the circles are the seating depths. O being .001 off the lands then .040, .080 and .120 off the lands. I've gone through your check list as follows
1. Bedding - perfect not the problem
2. Seating depths aren't consistent. I measured EACH round multiple times using a comparator. Like I said I'm getting very ANAL
3. Neck tension too high. Possible. These loads were virgin Remington brass. I ran them through my Redding competition bushing neck die to uniform them using a .310 bushing. I need to mike the neck wall thickness and adjust bushing size if necessary.
4. Powder charges aren't consistent. I checked each charge multiple times. Refer to #2 Very ANAL
5. Primer seating isn't consistent. All brass has had primer pockets uniformed, flash holes deburred and necks chamfered inside and out. I try to pay attention to the amount of pressure applied to primer seating.
6. Weak striker spring (not the case here as its a new action) Borden, not the problem
7. Poor striker protrusion (not applicable here either). See above
8. Junk scope? New Zeiss Conquest 4.5X14X44. Dam thing better not be junk!
9. Parallax set right? Shots were at 100 yards and parallax was set at 100
10. YOU (shooter) can't hold elevation worth a chit . More then likely the biggest factor in this equation.
I'll recheck the action screws and other torque settings.
I'm shooting off a pretty solid bench


Jim
That was one of my concerns, that maybe I was cleaning too much. I cleaned between groups 1 and 2, but I'm pretty sure I puled the first shot in group 1. I cleaned before group 3 but not for group 4. Group 4 is better then 3. I cleaned before group 5 but not group 6. Again 6 is tighter then 5. I didn't clean for groups 7 and 8. Maybe this rifle doesn't like em .120 off the lands?

I've lighten the trigger up a little and screwed in the over travel screw according to Darrel Hollands article on dwell time. We'll see if that helps

Roy
I'm down by Salt Lake City. If you ever get down this way get in touch with me. I'm sure this rifle would appreciate being shot by some one with more experience then me. I never did learn how to dance but I was a pretty good wrestler.


Thanks again guys
Wes

Last edited by WesB; 07-08-2010 at 08:37 AM.
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  #6  
Old 07-08-2010, 07:52 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
Posts: 8,232
Re: LongRifles Inc. first groups

Wes,

I appreciate the offer to visit.

Re: Shots @ 100 and parallax set @ 100.

I have a Conquest 6.5-20 on my AM and have noted that calibration of the focus is closer than less expensive scopes. I have no idea of how much one must fork out to get a scope with spot on focus/parallax calibration.

You may wish to set the rifle up solid and check the parallax by moving your eye around for verification.

There was/is a great "sticky" regarding set up of focus and parallax and all of a sudden I can't find any stickies.

We ought to get several folks together at a common spot and mess the trying to shoot through that Utah mirage. LRSickle is in Perry and has a good LR spot near the Golden Spike place..
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  #7  
Old 07-08-2010, 08:30 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 753
Re: LongRifles Inc. first groups

Quote:
9. Parallax set right? Shots were at 100 yards and parallax was set at 100
Wes,

"set at 100. . ." Exactly what does that mean?

Here's what I'm getting at. My eyes aren't what they once were. Nature is beginning to take its course (sucks!) If I was to sit behind a scope, adjust the parallax by dialing to the distance I am shooting from based on the value noted on the scope, it's very, very likely I will have parallax.

I personally cannot depend on the settings. They are a nominal reference at best for me.

A better way for me to check is by using that value to get "in the ballpark" and then get on the rifle and sight in on a stationary object. I then slowly move my head in a bobbing fashion while attempting to hold the rifle still and while focusing my attention the reticle. If the reticle moves with the motion of my head then I have parallax. If it is rock solid then I know I have it adjusted properly.

Good luck buddy.

C
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