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Full Length Sizer Boring

 
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  #22  
Old 04-18-2013, 11:28 AM
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Re: Full Length Sizer Boring

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Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
Hope you get that Bear . I have learned to make a few of my own dies now to save money . Replaced a few core swagers and core seaters so far but have not made a point forming die as yet . That one is much harder to make.
I have found out that when the bullet starts to get stuck in the point former it is because the core seater is worn out not the point former .
It has got bigger in ID and lost it critical match .
Most point formers will outlast two core seaters , especially if swagers use excessive core seating pressures .
The best steel to make a swage die is Bohler K110 equivalent in the USA would be something like Graph-Air .
Now I bet you really needed to know that
I've built dies from S5, S7, A2, D2 (forget that one), and a 0-1 and 0-6, and even 4350 pretreat steel. Seems like I made one forming die out of Air Die once, and that became a nightmare! I left too much stock in the I.D. to grind, and never could get it finished out!! I also made a set of 1-2-3 blocks at the sametime with .015" grind stock on each face. I still have them stashed away, and are about half ground! The easiest was 4350 that I later nitrided. A2 did just fine. Hated S7 and S5. D2 wasn't strong enough and cracked under pressure. For me to make another set of dies, it would probably be A2 or 4350 pretreat steel
gary
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  #23  
Old 04-20-2013, 02:02 AM
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Re: Full Length Sizer Boring

I have found D2 to be quite good so far and it is very dimensionally stable during heat treat .
I don't try to match the core seater and former as close as the die makers say to , that is pure BS . I make the core seater .0015 to .002 under the point former and it works fine . Gives you plenty of wear in the cores seater before the match is lost and makes it real easy to lapp to a workable size .
I guess it depends on how much pressure you are putting on the die. To make upto 30 cal bullets I have found that D2 is ok in the core swager and seater so far. Can't say for a point former but Corbins used Graph Air at one time and that is basicly D2 tool steel . None of my dies have ever cracked .
I use Bohler steel so that may be different to other makes in some way. Maybe the heat treating is the issue .
I'm talking about bullet swaging dies not reloading dies.

Last edited by Bullet bumper; 04-20-2013 at 02:39 AM.
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  #24  
Old 04-20-2013, 11:23 AM
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Re: Full Length Sizer Boring

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Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
I have found D2 to be quite good so far and it is very dimensionally stable during heat treat .
I don't try to match the core seater and former as close as the die makers say to , that is pure BS . I make the core seater .0015 to .002 under the point former and it works fine . Gives you plenty of wear in the cores seater before the match is lost and makes it real easy to lapp to a workable size .
I guess it depends on how much pressure you are putting on the die. To make upto 30 cal bullets I have found that D2 is ok in the core swager and seater so far. Can't say for a point former but Corbins used Graph Air at one time and that is basicly D2 tool steel . None of my dies have ever cracked .
I use Bohler steel so that may be different to other makes in some way. Maybe the heat treating is the issue .
I'm talking about bullet swaging dies not reloading dies.
D2 machines well and does heat treat well, but all I've worked with has a tendencey to crack under high stress (with a thin wall). Wear wise D2 would be better in my book. But I find A2 to be easier to work with once you learn what it likes and dislikes. The one thing I like about A2 is that it dosn't change during heat treat. I can leave about a half thousandths in the bore, and thru harden it. Then give it a nice polish job with three steps of emery and black paper. I've built core swedgers out of D2 and A2 and maybe a small handfull out of S5 or S7. These all worked well for the guy I built them for. A2 was the easiest as I had just about every size of A2 drill rod in stock. But on the otherhand the same fellow had me build him several stepped punches, and without a doubt D2 and A2 were the best to work with. I think D2 may grind a little better. I did make him a handfull of step punches out of Speedstar once, and the stuff turned well, but was a pain to grind. Had to use three different wheels to get it down to the sizes he wanted, and the radiuses were hell! Rex M2 would have been far easier (didn't have anything small laying around.).

One thing I did learn fast with D2 was to single point as much stack as you can out of the bore, and try to get by reaming less than .010" altogether. I learned the hard way on that one! Another issue I had with D2 was after hardening, I wanted to draw it back. Had problems with the stock moving on me. For me anyway, I don't think it's quite as stable as A2. But I still prefer the 4350 and 4150 pretreat steels with a deep nitride.
gary
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  #25  
Old 04-20-2013, 11:33 AM
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Re: Full Length Sizer Boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
I have found D2 to be quite good so far and it is very dimensionally stable during heat treat .
I don't try to match the core seater and former as close as the die makers say to , that is pure BS . I make the core seater .0015 to .002 under the point former and it works fine . Gives you plenty of wear in the cores seater before the match is lost and makes it real easy to lapp to a workable size .
I guess it depends on how much pressure you are putting on the die. To make upto 30 cal bullets I have found that D2 is ok in the core swager and seater so far. Can't say for a point former but Corbins used Graph Air at one time and that is basicly D2 tool steel . None of my dies have ever cracked .
I use Bohler steel so that may be different to other makes in some way. Maybe the heat treating is the issue .
I'm talking about bullet swaging dies not reloading dies.
To tell the truth on myself, I've got my butt in trouble more than a few times with Air Die, Graphmo, and a few others. Of that lot, I'd like to try Air Shock (can you still get it?). Air Shock seems to be similar to A2, but all I've worked with machines better. I gave all my data for it away about seven years ago. After thinking a minute or two between posts, The very first core swedgers I made were out of Keteos (sp). The stuff cuts well, and grinds very well. RDS was another I played with, and it is tougher to cut in a lathe, but wears forever. Vega cuts better than Speedstar, and prefered it to S7 and S5.
gary
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  #26  
Old 04-20-2013, 10:59 PM
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Re: Full Length Sizer Boring

I can see what you are saying. The steel I can get that is an A2 steel is Bohler K305 and I would be quite happy making a die from it . It is not like I have a huge warehouse of steel to choose from . I tend to use what I can get to some degree . It is far harder over here due to lack of product choice .
Some of the steels you talk about I have never heard of .
When I go to the steel supplier I tend to try and buy offcuts so sometimes you take what you can get.
Next time I go I will try to get some A2 and give it a go.
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  #27  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:02 AM
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Re: Full Length Sizer Boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
I can see what you are saying. The steel I can get that is an A2 steel is Bohler K305 and I would be quite happy making a die from it . It is not like I have a huge warehouse of steel to choose from . I tend to use what I can get to some degree . It is far harder over here due to lack of product choice .
Some of the steels you talk about I have never heard of .
When I go to the steel supplier I tend to try and buy offcuts so sometimes you take what you can get.
Next time I go I will try to get some A2 and give it a go.
Remember you can buy A2 in drill rod, and that puts you ahead of the game from the start. Before buying any, I'd check to see if my heat treater was setup to do air hardening steels. Most are. I used to have an in with a major heat treater that could do it all in vacume furnaces, and he'd do my high speed steels for a six pack of beer if I wasn't in a big hurry (never are). A die just dosn't have to rockwell at 62 contary to popular beliefe. Even 55rc will do nicely.

I almost always setup with a standard type cobalt drill to get a hole thru it with a spray mist coolant setup. Then I cleaned up the drilled hole with a carbide boring bar. After that (believe it or not) I went in there with a four flute core drill to get the bore within about .025". Cleaned it up once more and reamed it. I'm sure there are better ways, but that always worked well for me.
gary
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  #28  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:49 AM
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Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
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Re: Full Length Sizer Boring

Hey guys,

This is one heck of a conversation. I have no idea of what you are talking about regarding types of steel etc. but. . .

How in the heck is a pointing die made? What kind of a tool or process is used to get the ogive and point. I'd really like to understand more about that.

Regards,
Roy
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