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Different lathe..... CNC teach?

 
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  #29  
Old 07-13-2013, 09:44 PM
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Re: Different lathe..... CNC teach?

If you can get away with only $1000 worth of tooling you're a better man than I am! I have well over $1000 in measuring tools! I have somewhere in the neighborhood of $35,000 - $45,000(just for gunsmithing) in cutting tools , holders, and work holding (chucks,vises,,,, crappy work holding makes for crappy work), gauges and there always seems to be the need for more! I work with both manual machines and CNCs. Chambers cut on a manual machine can be just as slick as those cut on a CNC, ya' just can't do as many as fast. Any machine is useless without first class work holding and all those other 'tools' you'll find that you 'need'. And those will take lots of $$$. What I do know for sure is you can crash quicker with a CNC 'cause no man can move as fast as the machine does in 'rapids'. All it takes is a decimal point or zero in the wrong place. For just a few barrel/truing jobs a year a CNC looks like "over kill" for a hobbiest. If you're turning out a 1000+, sure, CNC can get you there. They're your $$$$,, do with them as you wish.
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  #30  
Old 07-13-2013, 10:22 PM
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Re: Different lathe..... CNC teach?

I did say 1000'SSSSSS. What kind of CNC stuff do you use and do you find it effective? It doesn't seem that you chamber CNC so what part of your operation is CNC? I believe Joel Russo here started CNC machining stocks and has made great progress for his business that way.
  #31  
Old 07-14-2013, 10:26 AM
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Re: Different lathe..... CNC teach?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortgrass View Post
If you can get away with only $1000 worth of tooling you're a better man than I am! I have well over $1000 in measuring tools! I have somewhere in the neighborhood of $35,000 - $45,000(just for gunsmithing) in cutting tools , holders, and work holding (chucks,vises,,,, crappy work holding makes for crappy work), gauges and there always seems to be the need for more! I work with both manual machines and CNCs. Chambers cut on a manual machine can be just as slick as those cut on a CNC, ya' just can't do as many as fast. Any machine is useless without first class work holding and all those other 'tools' you'll find that you 'need'. And those will take lots of $$$. What I do know for sure is you can crash quicker with a CNC 'cause no man can move as fast as the machine does in 'rapids'. All it takes is a decimal point or zero in the wrong place. For just a few barrel/truing jobs a year a CNC looks like "over kill" for a hobbiest. If you're turning out a 1000+, sure, CNC can get you there. They're your $$$$,, do with them as you wish.
great post!

A good rule of the thumb is that if you paid $10K for a machine, you can also figure $10K for tooling. Look at the price of an Alorus tool block, and then figure about $135 a pop for the tool holders. Then you gotta buy the tools themselves. Inserts are not free, and if your serious, you'll be buy stuff like Valenite or Sandvik (kennmetal as well). Buying good boring bars will often ruin your day! Yes you can buy the cheap Chinese ones and suffer dearly, or you cab pay out the nose once and buy the good carbide ones from the big companies that you know work everytime.

A buddy of mine that does race car stuff and rebuilds antique farm tractors as a hobby has two vertical mills plus a K&T knee mill that I scraped for him a few years back. He went shopping for a good rotary table that had the tilt option. When he got done, he could have bought a new truck for what he had in it! But he paid for it in less than two years. He will tell you upfront that he never knew how he got by without it! He's shopping for a CNC lathe and a hob right now, and I warned him about the price of gear cutting tools up front. The lathe will be a Hardingh, and probably kill his budgit.
gary
  #32  
Old 07-14-2013, 10:28 AM
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Re: Different lathe..... CNC teach?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazylabs View Post
I did say 1000'SSSSSS. What kind of CNC stuff do you use and do you find it effective? It doesn't seem that you chamber CNC so what part of your operation is CNC? I believe Joel Russo here started CNC machining stocks and has made great progress for his business that way.
You can chamber a barrel in a CNC lathe if you know your programing. Actually do a nice job as well.
gary
  #33  
Old 07-14-2013, 10:51 AM
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Re: Different lathe..... CNC teach?

For the most part, I'm staying out of this. lets just say the thread title (teach) got me a bit.

You all are tap dancing around the obvious. From what I can ascertain, it's obvious that the OP has little or no practical, hands on experience and certainly only a rudementary knowledge of machine shop discipline.

I would have prefered the correct term...Conversational Programming or programming for the layperson.

My Haas (that I've sold) had conversational programming but, true G code programming is measurably better.

It all distills down to the length and width of your wallet I guess and your stupidity.

My other comment is, you have to crawl before you walk and walk before you run. I've read so many threads on this site and others about posters that 'think' (and I use that term very lightly) that they can achieve the desired results using CNC equipment, when, in fact, thay actually have little knowledge of even basic machine shop discipline (other than what they read on the Internet or watch on U-Tube, which BTW is about 50% fairy tale and 50% unadulterated BS.

Don't you imagine there are sound reasons why a potential machinist is required to take an apprenticeship course and pass and then work in the chosen field prior to obtaining his Journeymans card?? Plus have the schooling and background in geometry and advanced mathematics, none of which you'll obtain from any forum, the Internet or any electronic media. It comes solely from experience and a hands on teacher and nowhere else.

You don't buy a machine and turn out quality anything without the prerequisites. It don't work that way and there is a good chance you'll get hurt in the process besides the fact that your goal will never be realized. In simple terms, junk in, junk out.

Any machine can be an accurate machine, it don't have to be a Hardridge or a Mazak, it can be a Chinese wannabe, but, the operator has to know what he (or she) is doing because precision machining is a whole lot more than pulling the trigger on a firearm. For the most part, I don't see that on these forums.

I'm on the side, reading and chuckling.
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  #34  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:53 AM
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Re: Different lathe..... CNC teach?

lazylabs, it boils down to this,,,, the CNCs are used for production and stay busy making money. We do not desire to do chambering/action truing on a production basis, i.e., as many as we can get. Chambering is a simple machining operation, accomplished on either a CNC or a manual lathe. Unless you're a hell 'uva programer and the job you're doing is 'complicated' (large, precise radiuses, helixes, compound tapers,,, you get the idea), for a "one-off" like you are suggesting (6-10 chambering jobs a year), a good manual lathe with good work holding and tooling will get it done, not as fast, but as well. I know, I'm a dinosaur, I still don't use inserts, on my chambering lathe, and hand grind my turning and threading tools,,,,,,,, 'cause I know how and I prefer them in this situation. I landed and leveled this lathe the same way I was taught 25+ years ago when I was moved from set-up/operator on the Acme screw machine line, in the job shop I was working in, to the tool room. I've spent the $$$ on chucks, back plates (and the time mounting them), and made the tool holders and other stuff , to make it as 'true' as possible. And,, I cut chambers that are the same size as the reamer (as verified with a 'shadow graph' [optical comparitor]). CNC for stock making? I hope those who are doing it get filthy rich, more power to 'um. Now the question arises in my mind, where's the division between custom and production? Custom, to me, means "individual", not another exactly like the last. I saw a display of Dakota rifles, at the Tulsa Arms Show this past spring, where the stocks were all CNC made. They ALL had the same identical shape, the only variation being in the wood, itself. Semi-custom, but not custom. Like I said, your dollars, do as you like with them. I done here, as I'm a "dinosaur".
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  #35  
Old 07-14-2013, 03:03 PM
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Re: Different lathe..... CNC teach?

Sidecar....I think you probably have a ton of knowledge but just can't help but resort to name calling and going negetive about everything. I asked the admin to delete this thread and hope they do.

Tricky, Chad and others........... thanks for sharing your knowledge, it's much appreciated.

Last edited by lazylabs; 07-14-2013 at 05:19 PM.
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