How/why it is fair and the ethics behind it. I'll warn you all now. This is big boy rules and plain talk so if your easily offended, start cracking knuckles cause you'll want to have your typing fingers all ready to go when you blast me.
There are two sides to this:
If your a gunsmith fitting barrel blanks to receivers and you don't already own the staple "food group" of chambering reamers (223, 30-06, 308, 300WM, etc) then your kind of behind the power curve since these are the meat and potatoes of the sporting arms industry. A gunsmith should already have those kinds of chamber reamers on hand just as they should have threading tool inserts, parting tool inserts, taps, reamers, mills, drills, centerdrills, countersinks, etc.
Now, if a guy walks in and wants a 6mmPPC with an improved shoulder angle, a 262 neck and he plans to shoot 66 grain Bart custom bullet but wants it throated like a Weatherby then is it realistic for me as a shop owner to pay for that? How often is it going to get used? When do I get to my investment back out of it? What about the time that goes into ordering it, waiting for it to show up, and then finally being able to do the work. Dave Kiff is pretty damn good but I've waited as long as six weeks for a reamer from him when things are hectic. That's six weeks of your job sitting stagnant in my shop and that means I'm waiting to get paid.
That is a bit blunt however let us not forget the whole point of being in business is to earn a profit so that little mouths at home can continue being the adorable little parasites that they are.
Then what happens when you figure out just how much BS work it is to form cases, neck turn, load develop, buy the dies, etc. and you decide to just go with a 6mm BR instead? Do I buy that reamer too? Now what happens to the "6ppc super exotica"?
I can see/agree with maybe going in half but you better be Jonny on the spot when it comes to doing your part/responsibility as a customer. Make sure that FFL arrives on time, make sure you know what you want ahead of time (Ever deal with a customer who changes his order every time a magazine article gets published?), and don't keep us on the phone for hours at a time because "Bubba" at the range says you should have a 261 neck instead of a 262.
The only way I'd ever absorb the entire cost is if its a caliber I should already own and/or you were a very long time customer who used me exclusively and had a long history of having high end rifles built. But these are also the kind of customers that aren't going to think twice about being asked to buy a $150 dollar reamer either.
Last scenario. You are well intentioned and show up with your own reamer. But now what do I do because I have already invested thousands in specialized tooling to cut a chamber as well as I possibly can. If you want me to use your reamer should I then charge you for my custom pilots that are made in .0002" increments? What if you walk in with a JGS or Dave Manson Reamer. Now my pilots don't work. What happens now if the gun doesn't shoot? Should I have to warranty the work?
These same customers who don't sweat this petty stuff are the same kinds of customers who aren't paranoid about having a gunmaker order their parts and then charge a little for the trouble. They are usually more interested in knowing the work is done right the first time. That's the caliber of people I adore dealing with and I strive for it.
I've kinda gone on a tangent here and it may piss some guys off and I'm very sorry for that but business has to be a two way street. Gimme gimme gimme just doesn't work guys. The good gunmakers out there strive to foster personal relationships with their customers. They also charge a premium because their work and their word sticks. It has backbone.
Told you I'd be blunt.
Last edited by NesikaChad; 03-01-2009 at 12:25 PM.
Don't know how this thread went from someone asking about where to get a reamer for a 25-06 AI to where the thread stands now. My statement stands. If I am to purchase a reamer for a custom build, I will be keeping that reamer when the work is done.
For a customer, it is the logical, cost effective way to approach it. I would not think it would make any difference to the gunsmith if I supplied the reamer or not.
Have a good day, and be careful over there in Iraq.
Not quite sure what insinuations you are referring to. If you reread my posts, they are very clear. Seems like we have a hostile crowd on this forum today. My posts were made with the intent to help the original poster find a reamer, before things got off topic.If you fellas want to get in a ******* match, do it without me. I choose not to participate.
"Maybe you were just kidding in your post." That is an insinuation. Believe me I'm not at all hostile. I just resent someone insinuating that I was "just kidding" when I was honestly trying to explain how things are, and have been, in the industry for years. PAX!
It was not an insinuation. I truly thought you were maybe kidding, as at the time I did not know what industry standard was in regards to reamers. What does the appreviation " PAX "stand for at the end of your post ?
thanks for the input guys. after thinking it over Im going to let the smith buy what he needs. to bad Im wanting to build such a freak of a caliber. years ago I couldnt find a 308norma reamer either. thanks chad for the input, it reminded me of the last smith I tried to work with. he seemed overbooked, had no time to explain anything he was going to do or why. just wanted me to give him 3000 and go away for 2 years. what a racket. dont get me wrong, I build Hi-po engines and its a pain dealing with wanna be "experts'. so you made good points.