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What can I do to this gun to make it stretch out ?

 
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  #8  
Old 06-29-2007, 07:19 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Re: What can I do to this gun to make it stretch out ?

[ QUOTE ]
If the 195gr Duplex Dead Center will shoot in your gun, go with that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Got them on the way. Everybody I've talked to say this is the way to go. Even the guys that don't sell them.


[ QUOTE ]
The scope will be vital.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've just put on a Nikon Omega BDC-250. The glass is good and it has finger adjustable elevation and windage knobs. The 5" of eye relief is nice.


[ QUOTE ]
Break-opens can be hard to accurize.

[/ QUOTE ]
Now the real question. What can be done to accurize a break open muzzleloader?


Any smiths out there care to weigh-in?
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  #9  
Old 06-29-2007, 07:51 AM
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Posts: 1,082
Re: What can I do to this gun to make it stretch out ?

IMO, heavy and slow for pure lead bullets, but that is an argument in waiting [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If you want to stretch out, then forget light loads. Find a high BC bullet and try a whole bunch of sabots. You may end up buying a bullet/sabot and throwing that sabot away because another one is more consistent.

Since it is the first shot that counts, I would swab between EVERY shot. After you find your best load, then figure out where the second shot goes on a dirty barrel.

MMP makes three sabots for the 50 caliber with a .452 bullet and another for a .458 bullet.
Harvester makes three if I recall, including a crush rib for easy loading.

I have not seen good performance with powerbelts on NJ deer and they do not compare to Mid-Western big boys [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Cabelas sells the equivalent of the Barnes TMZ ( all copper ), under the KNIGHT products, in 250 and 290 grain versions. These are $17 / 30 bullets but since they are a boat tail design you can't easily swap out the sabot. BC should be around .210 and .250

300 grain Barnes Original semi-spitzer has a good reputation, but are expensive and sometimes hard to find. IMO the BC is hyped a little too much [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

edge.
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  #10  
Old 06-29-2007, 10:11 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FREE RUN, MS
Posts: 774
Re: What can I do to this gun to make it stretch out ?

Ive been a lil lazy in here lately but.....

777 loose....no dought!

Barnes TMZ!....290 gr...nothin else!

I may sound opionated...but Ive been at it long enough I can be!....everything listed above except the ML scope Ive used...the ticket is loose 777 and barnes TMZ!
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  #11  
Old 06-30-2007, 06:04 PM
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Posts: 11
Re: What can I do to this gun to make it stretch out ?

Nyles,

How many grains of 777? Also, can you give the results you achieved with this load such as velocity, energy and max effective lethal range?

Thanks for the help.
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  #12  
Old 07-02-2007, 08:38 AM
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Location: FREE RUN, MS
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Re: What can I do to this gun to make it stretch out ?

FRom Dads Encore
Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: .45 Cal, Barnes TMZ, 290 grn
Ballistic Coeff: 0.241
Bullet Weight: 290
Velocity: 2061
Target Distance: 141
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 80
Altitude: 300

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 2061 fps 2735 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in -0.00 in
25 yds 0.18 in 1985 fps 2537 fpe 0.037 sec 0.26 in -0.53 in 0.13 in
50 yds 1.33 in 1910 fps 2349 fpe 0.075 sec 1.06 in -0.33 in 0.39 in
75 yds 1.87 in 1837 fps 2174 fpe 0.115 sec 2.46 in 0.04 in 1.03 in
100 yds 1.75 in 1767 fps 2011 fpe 0.157 sec 4.52 in 0.60 in 2.00 in
125 yds 0.92 in 1699 fps 1859 fpe 0.201 sec 7.29 in 1.36 in 3.29 in
150 yds -0.66 in 1633 fps 1717 fpe 0.246 sec 10.82 in 2.34 in 4.86 in
175 yds -3.03 in 1569 fps 1585 fpe 0.293 sec 15.13 in 3.56 in 6.69 in
200 yds -6.21 in 1506 fps 1461 fpe 0.341 sec 20.26 in 5.05 in 8.76 in
225 yds -10.41 in 1447 fps 1348 fpe 0.392 sec 26.41 in 6.86 in 11.29 in
250 yds -15.68 in 1391 fps 1245 fpe 0.445 sec 33.62 in 9.01 in 14.21 in
275 yds -22.11 in 1338 fps 1153 fpe 0.500 sec 42.00 in 11.55 in 17.54 in
300 yds -29.73 in 1288 fps 1068 fpe 0.557 sec 51.55 in 14.48 in 21.20 in
325 yds -38.61 in 1241 fps 992 fpe 0.616 sec 62.37 in 17.86 in 25.20 in
350 yds -48.96 in 1198 fps 925 fpe 0.678 sec 74.67 in 21.73 in 29.62 in
375 yds -60.84 in 1160 fps 866 fpe 0.741 sec 88.50 in 26.12 in 34.42 in
400 yds -74.34 in 1124 fps 814 fpe 0.807 sec 103.94 in 31.06 in 39.57 in
425 yds -89.56 in 1093 fps 769 fpe 0.875 sec 121.11 in 36.59 in 45.08 in
450 yds -106.63 in 1065 fps 731 fpe 0.944 sec 140.11 in 42.74 in 50.91 in
475 yds -125.54 in 1040 fps 697 fpe 1.016 sec 160.97 in 49.52 in 57.04 in
500 yds -146.44 in 1017 fps 666 fpe 1.088 sec 183.81 in 56.98 in 63.48 in
525 yds -169.35 in 997 fps 640 fpe 1.163 sec 208.66 in 65.14 in 70.19 in
550 yds -194.20 in 977 fps 615 fpe 1.239 sec 235.46 in 73.97 in 77.10 in
575 yds -221.35 in 960 fps 593 fpe 1.316 sec 264.56 in 83.60 in 84.35 in
600 yds -250.78 in 943 fps 573 fpe 1.395 sec 295.93 in 94.02 in 91.87 in
625 yds -282.44 in 927 fps 554 fpe 1.476 sec 329.53 in 105.24 in 99.61 in
650 yds -316.32 in 912 fps 536 fpe 1.557 sec 365.36 in 117.24 in 107.54 in
675 yds -352.70 in 898 fps 519 fpe 1.640 sec 403.68 in 130.14 in 115.74 in
700 yds -391.23 in 884 fps 504 fpe 1.724 sec 444.16 in 143.81 in 124.06 in
725 yds -432.50 in 871 fps 489 fpe 1.809 sec 487.36 in 158.47 in 132.67 in
750 yds -476.49 in 859 fps 475 fpe 1.896 sec 533.30 in 174.10 in 141.55 in
775 yds -523.22 in 847 fps 461 fpe 1.984 sec 581.97 in 190.73 in 150.67 in
800 yds -572.68 in 835 fps 449 fpe 2.074 sec 633.38 in 208.37 in 160.00 in
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  #13  
Old 07-02-2007, 08:52 AM
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Re: What can I do to this gun to make it stretch out ?

That is with 3 pellets for 150 grains I shoot 120 grs loose and results are so close that I use his sheet.

IMHO....loose 777 is cheaper...and I dont experience that crazy flyer...a cap is enough to move a bullet in the barrel before total ignition...changing the bullets starting point in the barrel....I believe those holes through the pellets cause this.

Dad sold his Optima for the Encore but after many debates we believe his bullet explosion was caused by the Powerbelts...being too soft for the velocities. So no problems with the optima(just heavy as hell!)

We still carry a few Powerbelts in quick loaders in case we do in fact need a second shot...TMZ's do not load easily. But look at my other blackpowdwer posts and you will see what they are capable of.

I sight in at 1" high at 75 yards for a 150 zero(real close anyway), I have shot over deer at 75 yards running from a treestand so this allows me to keep a dead on hold. It all depends on the average range you usually have your shots. Ours average 50-75 yards...on shots longer than 150 we are usually in shooting houses in fileds and have plenty of time to adjust for 200-225. At 250 hold on his spine itll drop right in his vitals. After that your gussing unless youve praticed the shot.

I have killed deer close enough to leave powder burns on the exit side(he was close enough I couldnt shoulder the but all and all a 150 yard zero will cover 99% of my shots but do in fact shoot that 200 yrd mark itll make you better in the end and 6 inches of drop is not hard to deal with, it will keep your hold on hair to round 250.

Last edit GET ALL THE SCOPE YOU CAN STAND!
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2007, 04:43 AM
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Location: mathias wv
Posts: 985
This buck was taken at 208 yards (lazered) I took one a previous year at 165, then the next year I helplessly watched a realy nice 10 point at 240 yds and could do nothing.
On the way home I was thinking there was something I could do, so when I got home I put a burris 3x9 with bp on the thunderhawk, and started shooting a higher bc saboted bullet, with 150 gr of powder.
started shooting it and became very comfortable with it out to 250+ yards.
the last day of wv season that year this buck was in a small clearing at 208 yds, put the horizontal wire on top his back, lined the vertical wire up with the offside shoulder, he never moved after the gun went off, just flipped over feet in the air.

RR

Now my opinion, ditch the powerbelts, get a good high velocity sabot load (TC shockwaves are good as any with a BC of .210) work on your loading technique to keep everything as consistant as possible, shoot alot and develope confidance in it.
I shoot 3 pyro (not 777) pellets behind a shockwave sabot and get really good groups with them (around 1.5" at 100) a BDC reticle will help figure your hold I know a few guys who shoot 2 50 gr and 2 30 grain pellets from they're rifles, but doesn't seem to be much difference. keep working with it till you find a load it likes and practice, practice, practise.
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Last edited by Ridge Runner; 11-18-2007 at 02:11 PM. Reason: just adding info
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