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BPCR For long ranges

 
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  #8  
Old 01-08-2008, 11:14 PM
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Location: Texas
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Wild Bill

If your going to shoot smokeless powder then a 45/70 does fine.

But if your going to shoot black powder or 777 then I would recomend
a 45/90 as a minium and the 45/120 max.

I have a 45/110 and realy like it for 600yrds plus it has a 1 in 48 twist
for lead bullets and it likes the 550gr cast.

The next rifle I biuld will be a 45/110 with a 30" #8 Lilja 1 in 14 twist
on a 1885 highwall, so I can shoot 500gr+ jacketed bullets using 777
as the black powder substitute loaded to around 2000 ft/sec.

I have made some 500gr boataill banded solids in my lathe and they
were great but needed more twist to stabilize better.

The 40 cal works good but the 45 works better under poor conditions.

Brass for the 45/10 and 45/120 is a little harder to get than the 45/70,
45/90 and the 45/100. But Norma makes the 45 basic (same as 45/120
that can be trimed to the 45/110) and it is very good brass.

As I said anything larger than a 45/70 does not benefit you If shooting
smokeless powder, But you can take advantage of the larger case
capacity with BP or 777.

Good luck
J E CUSTOM
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  #9  
Old 01-17-2008, 10:01 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 22
Black Powder at Long Range

This is a bit of "hear-say" as I've not shot BP at distance. I have done a good bit of target work at 600+. From what I've read, particularly with muzzle-loaders, the preferred .45 cal bullets are 535+ grains in weight and the charges run 85-100 grains, which all falls in with the previous comments on cartridges.

I would do a GOOD bit of research on the twist. It seems most of the Muzzle Loading people who shoot at 1,000 like to have around a 1:18 twist. Just a word of caution and suggestion to look things over. Once the barrel is cut, you are committed.
John
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  #10  
Old 01-29-2008, 02:38 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 578
Peep Sight?

Hmmmmm....that term reminds me of a 'Peeping Tom'!!

I rather like Aperture Sight much better!!
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  #11  
Old 01-29-2008, 02:53 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by J E Custom View Post
Wild Bill

If your going to shoot smokeless powder then a 45/70 does fine.

But if your going to shoot black powder or 777 then I would recomend
a 45/90 as a minium and the 45/120 max.

I have a 45/110 and realy like it for 600yrds plus it has a 1 in 48 twist
for lead bullets and it likes the 550gr cast.

The next rifle I biuld will be a 45/110 with a 30" #8 Lilja 1 in 14 twist
on a 1885 highwall, so I can shoot 500gr+ jacketed bullets using 777
as the black powder substitute loaded to around 2000 ft/sec.

I have made some 500gr boataill banded solids in my lathe and they
were great but needed more twist to stabilize better.

The 40 cal works good but the 45 works better under poor conditions.

Brass for the 45/10 and 45/120 is a little harder to get than the 45/70,
45/90 and the 45/100. But Norma makes the 45 basic (same as 45/120
that can be trimed to the 45/110) and it is very good brass.

As I said anything larger than a 45/70 does not benefit you If shooting
smokeless powder, But you can take advantage of the larger case
capacity with BP or 777.

Good luck
J E CUSTOM
J E CUSTOM

I find it hard to believe that if you're shooting an elongated bullet such as what we shoot in BPCR competition out to 1000 yards that your projectile is stable; especially if you're shooting a bullet akin to the Postell or one of the bullets of around 550 grs. weight and running around 1.437" in length!! Normally...most shooters shooting comp at long range use a 1-18" ROT if shooting say a .45 caliber and in some instances a 1-16" ROT! The objective is to obtain nice and round holes through the target paper and historically a rifle with 1-48" ROT is good for nothing but ROUND BALL stuff! With a 1-48" ROT....you'd certainly need to have the bullet/projectile moving out at around 2500 fps or better for maintenance of stability and I doubt that's gonna happen!

Oh...as to the .45/70 being used with SP vs BP and not doing to well.....that's baloney! Several matches this past season held up in Wyoming/Montana way were WON with a .45/70 caliber shooting what??????......BLACKPOWDER!! Velocities were running somewhere around 1120 to 1200 fps or maybe just a tat over 1200 fps in a couple of instances! For these old straight-walled cases......nothing beats BP and smokeless powder WILL NOT deliver the SDs that can be obained with BLACKPOWDER!!
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  #12  
Old 01-30-2008, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpsman View Post
J E CUSTOM

I find it hard to believe that if you're shooting an elongated bullet such as what we shoot in BPCR competition out to 1000 yards that your projectile is stable; especially if you're shooting a bullet akin to the Postell or one of the bullets of around 550 grs. weight and running around 1.437" in length!! Normally...most shooters shooting comp at long range use a 1-18" ROT if shooting say a .45 caliber and in some instances a 1-16" ROT! The objective is to obtain nice and round holes through the target paper and historically a rifle with 1-48" ROT is good for nothing but ROUND BALL stuff! With a 1-48" ROT....you'd certainly need to have the bullet/projectile moving out at around 2500 fps or better for maintenance of stability and I doubt that's gonna happen!

Oh...as to the .45/70 being used with SP vs BP and not doing to well.....that's baloney! Several matches this past season held up in Wyoming/Montana way were WON with a .45/70 caliber shooting what??????......BLACKPOWDER!! Velocities were running somewhere around 1120 to 1200 fps or maybe just a tat over 1200 fps in a couple of instances! For these old straight-walled cases......nothing beats BP and smokeless powder WILL NOT deliver the SDs that can be obained with BLACKPOWDER!!

Sharpsman

First let me thank you for pointing out all of my shortcomings and the Typo
( It should be 1in 28 not 1in 48 for the rate of twist ).

Also I have owned many 45/70s and know what they are capable of and
have loaded them in the Browning B-78s to near 458 win velocity with
smokeless powder and they performed very well in a 1 in 14 twist using
500gr jacketed bullets!!

And if you read my post I also mentioned Hand made bullets that worked
well but needed more twist to stabilize, these were made of copper and are
spitzer boatails hollow points. That also weigh 500gr and have a much higer
blistic coefficient than lead .

The reason I am building a 45/110 with a 1in14 twist is to shoot these
bullets or other jacketed bullets at 2000ft/sec + in a Browning hi wall
which like the Ruger #1 is one of the strongest of the falling blocks,

Shooting paper is a lot different than shooting at a live animal but I will
share with you the reason I feel the 45/70 is not up to the task at
1000yrds even for paper and in the hands of an expert.

Here is the comparison Between your 45/70 and my 45/110 load at
900yrds

45/70
Drop 1564.1in

45/110
drop 529.4

45/70
Velocity 704 ft/sec

45/110
Velocity 1060 ft/sec

45/70
Energy 610 ft/lbs

45/110
energy 1247 ft/lbs

45/70
Time of flight 3.186 sec

45/110
Time of flight 1.922sec

45/70
Optimal game weight 160 lbs

45/110
Optimal game weight 446 lbs

Even you can see that 45/70 has its limits and 1000yrds is streching
this fine old cartrige for (shooting round holes in paper) and is beyond
the limits for game.

And as you know if you shoot 1000 yrd BP matches most shoot 45/90s
or bigger because conditions are seldom perfect.

This is not a personal attack on you ,just felt I should respond for those
who read and enjoy this site like my self,and form there opinions based
on suggestions by others.

Amen Brother
J E CUSTOM
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