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Muzzleloader Hunting Techniques For Muzzleloader Hunting

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BPCR For long ranges

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  #8  
Unread 01-08-2008, 11:14 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Wild Bill

If your going to shoot smokeless powder then a 45/70 does fine.

But if your going to shoot black powder or 777 then I would recomend
a 45/90 as a minium and the 45/120 max.

I have a 45/110 and realy like it for 600yrds plus it has a 1 in 48 twist
for lead bullets and it likes the 550gr cast.

The next rifle I biuld will be a 45/110 with a 30" #8 Lilja 1 in 14 twist
on a 1885 highwall, so I can shoot 500gr+ jacketed bullets using 777
as the black powder substitute loaded to around 2000 ft/sec.

I have made some 500gr boataill banded solids in my lathe and they
were great but needed more twist to stabilize better.

The 40 cal works good but the 45 works better under poor conditions.

Brass for the 45/10 and 45/120 is a little harder to get than the 45/70,
45/90 and the 45/100. But Norma makes the 45 basic (same as 45/120
that can be trimed to the 45/110) and it is very good brass.

As I said anything larger than a 45/70 does not benefit you If shooting
smokeless powder, But you can take advantage of the larger case
capacity with BP or 777.

Good luck
J E CUSTOM
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  •   #9  
    Unread 01-17-2008, 10:01 PM
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    Join Date: Jun 2007
    Posts: 22
    Black Powder at Long Range

    This is a bit of "hear-say" as I've not shot BP at distance. I have done a good bit of target work at 600+. From what I've read, particularly with muzzle-loaders, the preferred .45 cal bullets are 535+ grains in weight and the charges run 85-100 grains, which all falls in with the previous comments on cartridges.

    I would do a GOOD bit of research on the twist. It seems most of the Muzzle Loading people who shoot at 1,000 like to have around a 1:18 twist. Just a word of caution and suggestion to look things over. Once the barrel is cut, you are committed.
    John
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      #10  
    Unread 01-29-2008, 02:38 PM
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    Join Date: Jan 2003
    Location: North Louisiana
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    Peep Sight?

    Hmmmmm....that term reminds me of a 'Peeping Tom'!!

    I rather like Aperture Sight much better!!
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      #11  
    Unread 01-29-2008, 02:53 PM
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    Join Date: Jan 2003
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by J E Custom View Post
    Wild Bill

    If your going to shoot smokeless powder then a 45/70 does fine.

    But if your going to shoot black powder or 777 then I would recomend
    a 45/90 as a minium and the 45/120 max.

    I have a 45/110 and realy like it for 600yrds plus it has a 1 in 48 twist
    for lead bullets and it likes the 550gr cast.

    The next rifle I biuld will be a 45/110 with a 30" #8 Lilja 1 in 14 twist
    on a 1885 highwall, so I can shoot 500gr+ jacketed bullets using 777
    as the black powder substitute loaded to around 2000 ft/sec.

    I have made some 500gr boataill banded solids in my lathe and they
    were great but needed more twist to stabilize better.

    The 40 cal works good but the 45 works better under poor conditions.

    Brass for the 45/10 and 45/120 is a little harder to get than the 45/70,
    45/90 and the 45/100. But Norma makes the 45 basic (same as 45/120
    that can be trimed to the 45/110) and it is very good brass.

    As I said anything larger than a 45/70 does not benefit you If shooting
    smokeless powder, But you can take advantage of the larger case
    capacity with BP or 777.

    Good luck
    J E CUSTOM
    J E CUSTOM

    I find it hard to believe that if you're shooting an elongated bullet such as what we shoot in BPCR competition out to 1000 yards that your projectile is stable; especially if you're shooting a bullet akin to the Postell or one of the bullets of around 550 grs. weight and running around 1.437" in length!! Normally...most shooters shooting comp at long range use a 1-18" ROT if shooting say a .45 caliber and in some instances a 1-16" ROT! The objective is to obtain nice and round holes through the target paper and historically a rifle with 1-48" ROT is good for nothing but ROUND BALL stuff! With a 1-48" ROT....you'd certainly need to have the bullet/projectile moving out at around 2500 fps or better for maintenance of stability and I doubt that's gonna happen!

    Oh...as to the .45/70 being used with SP vs BP and not doing to well.....that's baloney! Several matches this past season held up in Wyoming/Montana way were WON with a .45/70 caliber shooting what??????......BLACKPOWDER!! Velocities were running somewhere around 1120 to 1200 fps or maybe just a tat over 1200 fps in a couple of instances! For these old straight-walled cases......nothing beats BP and smokeless powder WILL NOT deliver the SDs that can be obained with BLACKPOWDER!!
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      #12  
    Unread 01-30-2008, 09:43 PM
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    Join Date: Jul 2004
    Location: Texas
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sharpsman View Post
    J E CUSTOM

    I find it hard to believe that if you're shooting an elongated bullet such as what we shoot in BPCR competition out to 1000 yards that your projectile is stable; especially if you're shooting a bullet akin to the Postell or one of the bullets of around 550 grs. weight and running around 1.437" in length!! Normally...most shooters shooting comp at long range use a 1-18" ROT if shooting say a .45 caliber and in some instances a 1-16" ROT! The objective is to obtain nice and round holes through the target paper and historically a rifle with 1-48" ROT is good for nothing but ROUND BALL stuff! With a 1-48" ROT....you'd certainly need to have the bullet/projectile moving out at around 2500 fps or better for maintenance of stability and I doubt that's gonna happen!

    Oh...as to the .45/70 being used with SP vs BP and not doing to well.....that's baloney! Several matches this past season held up in Wyoming/Montana way were WON with a .45/70 caliber shooting what??????......BLACKPOWDER!! Velocities were running somewhere around 1120 to 1200 fps or maybe just a tat over 1200 fps in a couple of instances! For these old straight-walled cases......nothing beats BP and smokeless powder WILL NOT deliver the SDs that can be obained with BLACKPOWDER!!

    Sharpsman

    First let me thank you for pointing out all of my shortcomings and the Typo
    ( It should be 1in 28 not 1in 48 for the rate of twist ).

    Also I have owned many 45/70s and know what they are capable of and
    have loaded them in the Browning B-78s to near 458 win velocity with
    smokeless powder and they performed very well in a 1 in 14 twist using
    500gr jacketed bullets!!

    And if you read my post I also mentioned Hand made bullets that worked
    well but needed more twist to stabilize, these were made of copper and are
    spitzer boatails hollow points. That also weigh 500gr and have a much higer
    blistic coefficient than lead .

    The reason I am building a 45/110 with a 1in14 twist is to shoot these
    bullets or other jacketed bullets at 2000ft/sec + in a Browning hi wall
    which like the Ruger #1 is one of the strongest of the falling blocks,

    Shooting paper is a lot different than shooting at a live animal but I will
    share with you the reason I feel the 45/70 is not up to the task at
    1000yrds even for paper and in the hands of an expert.

    Here is the comparison Between your 45/70 and my 45/110 load at
    900yrds

    45/70
    Drop 1564.1in

    45/110
    drop 529.4

    45/70
    Velocity 704 ft/sec

    45/110
    Velocity 1060 ft/sec

    45/70
    Energy 610 ft/lbs

    45/110
    energy 1247 ft/lbs

    45/70
    Time of flight 3.186 sec

    45/110
    Time of flight 1.922sec

    45/70
    Optimal game weight 160 lbs

    45/110
    Optimal game weight 446 lbs

    Even you can see that 45/70 has its limits and 1000yrds is streching
    this fine old cartrige for (shooting round holes in paper) and is beyond
    the limits for game.

    And as you know if you shoot 1000 yrd BP matches most shoot 45/90s
    or bigger because conditions are seldom perfect.

    This is not a personal attack on you ,just felt I should respond for those
    who read and enjoy this site like my self,and form there opinions based
    on suggestions by others.

    Amen Brother
    J E CUSTOM
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