I am thinking of buying (or building) a 308win. that is capable of shooting a 6in. group or better at 1000yds. My question is, is that possible, and if so do any of you guys own one, or know of a rifle that is capable doing this? I am kind of new to long range shooting, so this is the first part of my research.
I've got a couple 308's that could shoot sub 6" groups at 1000yds if the conditions were perfect but generaly they run around 10" mostly due to wind drift. I shoot 175gr bullets 95% of the time , they have done well for me and I never realy had the urge to try any others. Some guys say that they can't get the 168gr bullet to stay stabilized out to 1000yds , don't know , never tried it. If I were goin to build a 308 just to shoot to 1000yds then I'd build it on 28-30" barrel 1-10 twist , chambered for 308 Ackley improved to squzze that last little bit of effeciency out of it and have the chamber throated for 190gr Berger VLD's so that the base of the bullet is just at the neck shoulder junction. This will give the most case capacity with a bullet than has a great BC. With a good barrel in the 30" range and the proper cut chamber you should be able to get close to 2700fps .
But if your gonna build a gun to shoot to 1000yds why choose the 308? The 7-08 or better yet the 260 will get you their with shorter time of flight with a higher BC bullet. The 260 shooitn a 142gr Sierra Match King out at 2800fps will run very close balisticaly to a 300 Win mag shooting a 190gr SMK and do it with less recoil than a 308 , and the 142gr 260 round hits harder at 1000yds than the 308 with a 175 does!!! I'm shooting a 260 right now and can't find one bad thing wrong with it , it shoots just about all loads very well its not finiky at all and the amount of great high BC bullets is endless. The 243 Ackely is another great round , with a 1-8 twist barrel you can shoot the 100-115 class bullet that have very high BC's out pretty fast and that makes for some good 1000yd groups also.
I promised myself that iwasen't gonna build any more "heavy" guns but I have a M-7 here with one of Joel Russo's A5's and a Rem 721 , as of this second the M-7 is gonna be a heavy 243Ackley for target and varmint shooting and the 721 will either be a 30-338Lapua improved or a 338 lapua improved.
I have always been a 308 fan and it will always have a place in my heart but the longer sleek high BC bullets run out a slightly higher speeds just flat out wins the accuracy race at long range
The best thing to do when building your LR rig is figure out what your gonna want it to do , you have stated that you want 6" groups at 1000yds so is that just for shooting paper? Are your opposed to a magnum caliber? do you have an weapon plan or idea of what it is that you want the gun to look like? DO you have any parts for it yet??
There is alot more to shooting a 6 in group at 1,000 yrds. than haveing a gun that will do it. With a 180 gn. Sierra SBT bullet at 2,600 fps, which is abt the max. velosity you will be able to get from a .308, the bullet would drift 98 1/2 in at 1,000 yrds. with a 10 mph cross wind. If the wind dropped to 9 mph it would drift 9.85 inches less and an 11 mph wind would cause it to drift an extra 9.85 inches. With any variation in wind speed it gets real tough to shoot small groups at 1,000 yrds. I would recomand you forget 1,000 yrds. for now and learn about 500 yrds. first where a 10 mph cross wind will only move your bullet 20.42 inches.
I have a gun that should come close on a good day. Is a .22-6mm. I`m pushing an 80 gn. .22 cal bullet at 3,475 fps. With it drift should be around 87 in. at 1,000 yrds. I`ve got alittle over $ 1,000 in the gun and another $ 1,050 in the scope. This was built as a coyote rifle for use from 250 yrds. to 800 yrds or so. If I were going to build a rifle for serious 1,000 yrd. shooting it would be in 6.5 cal. Minimum a .284 Win. case.
jester714 - the .308 will shoot accurately at 1000 yards - but 6" is TOUGH. I've never done it. Most LR prone competitors have never done that well. It can however be done.
Also there are much better cartridges than the .308 for 1000 yard shooting. It will do it though. My most accurate long-range rifle is a .308 Win, built for Palma competition - that's prone, sight equipped shooting, limited to a 155 grain bullet and the .308 Win at 800, 900 and 1000 yards. To get there I use a 30" tight bore Krieger barrel with a 1:13 twist. MV for the 155's is about 2980 fps. I load 155 Nosler comp bullets over a stiff (but slightly below max) charge of Varget in Lapua brass.
I would not mind at all shooting a much higher BC bullet and/or faster cartridge.
This is one reason why you'll see two different classes in F-class competition:
F/TR which is limited to .308 and .223 rifles and F/open which is open to virtually any cartridge and is dominated by the 6.5-284. In fact Savage sells two competition ready F-class rifles, one in .308, the other in 6.5-284. It's tough for a .308 to do as well at long range as the slippery 6.5mm bullets. Not at all impossible, but tough.
Buddy of mine recently took 2nd at the F-class Nationals, with a factory built .308 Savage F/TR rifle. Not bad considering the high-dollar competition on the line!
If you want a legit 1000yd rifle I would with something like a 6.5x284 with a 140gr bullet like the AMAX, Berger, or SMK. A 243 with a heavy 6mm bullet will also get you there but it will drift a decent amount, same story with a 25-06. I like the 308 because its fun to shoot and hard to wear out the BBL but it aint a real good 1k gun.
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The best thing to do when building your long range rig is figure out what your gonna want it to do , you have stated that you want 6" groups at 1000yds so is that just for shooting paper? Are your opposed to a magnum caliber? do you have an weapon plan or idea of what it is that you want the gun to look like? DO you have any parts for it yet??
No, it is not for punching paper. I guesse I just want a rifle that I will be able to take a coyote at up to 1000yds. 1000yds. being the maximum shot I would take. I just thought that if it were able to shoot a 6in. group at 1000yds. it would be great at closer ranges.
The reason that I want a 308win. is that I allready have several hundred cases to reload, but no rifle to use them in. I am not very interested in a wildcat round, although I am not opposed to a magnum caliber, but I want something that I can shoot for long periods of time. I really don't want it to be over eleven pounds. I have not purchased any parts for it yet, because I am still doing a little research.
I would say the 260 or the 260 Ackley improved , with a 26-28" barrel you will be able to get real close to 3000fps with the 140gr bullets. I would suggest the A-max bullets as they will likely expand better at the long range than the SMK or Bergers. the 140gr A-max has a listed BC of .550 and from what I've been told thats pretty close. I suggest the 260 and the 260 Ai over the 6.5-284 due to the ability to feed from a short action with less trouble with the bullets being seated to deep and your only giving up maybe 150fps. You can use either 308 or 243 Lapua brass and that first 100 cases would last you the majority of the barrels life if you don't get crazy with the pressure.
The 243 Ackley would be another good choice running a 105gr A-max out at the 3000-3100fps range and a BC of .500 that would shoot pretty flat and buck the wind well out to 1000yds. Again quality Lapua brass available , very low recoil and will feed from the short action easly.
My last suggestion would be the 7-08 and 7-08 Ackley , with a 26" barrel you can get 2800fps maybe 2900fps out of it with a 162gr A-max that has a listed BC of .625. Balisticaly this is probably the best round , it will likely shoot flatter have less wind drift and hit harder at 1000yds than any of the others , it will also have longer barrel life but the recoil will be a little bit more but in a 10lb gun I don't think it would be an issue making 10-15 shots in a row.
If you use a Rem short action , with say a 28" medium Palma conture barrel and a decient synthetic stock you should be able to have a scoped gun that will weigh in less than 10lbs and you can cut the weight even more by using aluminum rings and bases , flute the barrel and use an ultra light stock from say High Tech Specialties , Manners or Lone Wolf