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Your opinion wanted....

 
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  #1  
Old 06-15-2005, 10:59 PM
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Your opinion wanted....

To all,

What is your opinion on the effects on accuracy concerning variation in case wall thickness.

What I mean is say one side of the case body wall is 0.030" thick and the opposite side is 0.045" thick.

I am talking extreme range consistancy. External dimensions would be true BR quality, Just wondering what your thoughts or experiences are with case wall thicknedd variation. Necks would be trued by turning so they would be consistant.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

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Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

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  #2  
Old 06-15-2005, 11:16 PM
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Re: Your opinion wanted....

Fifty,
Are you familiar with the series of articles that were published some time back in PS that dealt with the shooting going on at the "houston warehouse"? Some folks had the opportunity to do a good bit of shooting in a warehouse in houston... and found, among other things, that reducing variations in case wall thickness (by sorting) reduced group sizes... to a point, but that at the very extreme end of sorting, cases with some variation shot better than those with no variation at all. Groups were shot with some regularity that measured between .06 and .04.
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  #3  
Old 06-16-2005, 12:37 AM
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Re: Your opinion wanted....

This issue has had recent airing in these forums. Having said that, you have qualified the question by writing for extreme range. This makes it next to impossible to give a considered response because of the many variables in shooting conditions at long range. Now that I've gotten that off my chest, I wish to relate a conversation I had with Allen Hall at a BR match. The topic was long various short cases and accuracy. I took the side of the short case and he related an experience he had in a BR match shooting against R.L. WILSON. R.L. won the match using a 30-06 against all the .222's and it's variations. The reason was because with the tools available to him (that he made of course)He was able to get straight cases to work with. If the case neck shows a lot of variation then so will the case body. The real truth of all this is a great barrel, properly fit in the hands of a shooters that can dance with the wind will cover a lot of sins. Yes it all plays, there are many parts each with many pieces of the puzzle. The trick with all this is , is to eliminate the alibis. And to give the loose nut behind the trigger the confidence to win.
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  #4  
Old 06-16-2005, 12:38 AM
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Re: Your opinion wanted....

Fiftydriver,
You pose an interesting question and I can not give you an exact answer but let me explain. I bought a lot of 300WM brass and ran it over my neck thickness variance guage , 7 cases were way out from the norm so I culled them but still use them for load developement and fouling shots . the other 93 I neck turned and use for all my target and game shooting ,never really giving the other 7 a fair chance to see how they compare. Goodgrouper and 7mmrhb dont cull out cases doing load developement they neckturn them all and square the case heads and they seem to perform quite well. this makes thing's clear as mud . I think case weight ,bullet weight,powder weight and bearing surface length uniformity are all more important.
B
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  #5  
Old 06-16-2005, 05:37 AM
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Re: Your opinion wanted....

I have a Juenke machine and use it to sort fired cases. I have seen cases that are out of norm with the others continuously throw a shot out of the main group.

I do the same thing with most bullets ie run them across the Juenke to catch the odd one.

BH
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  #6  
Old 06-16-2005, 06:21 AM
 
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Re: Your opinion wanted....

I read the warehouse article and they tried to really get you to think that it made a difference.. but I really think it doesn't make a consistient everytime all the time difference...

I don't do much brass prep compared to most... I just sort out the real bad ones...

extreme range consistency I think would be as much barrel related as case related... pretty much you're talking velocity consistiency right? if every bullet weighed exactly the same...
so if you measure case wall thickness I think you'd have to measure and weigh each bullet as well...

then you hope you have a good barrel too!
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  #7  
Old 06-16-2005, 07:46 AM
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Re: Your opinion wanted....

Thanks for the thoughts guys, interesting reading.

Let me give a bit more detail on my projects.

First off, we all know barrel bore quality, rifle machining quality, bedding quality, stock stiffness, rest sturdiness, shooters consistancy, load quality and external conditions variables effect accuracy tremendously at extreme range.

For this debate, lets assume we are shooting in a eutopia vacume with all these variables out of the eqation.

My reason for the post is I am testing a certain brand of brass as a canidate for an upcoming member of the Allen Mag family of wildcats.

Because of the size of this project and the nature and expense of the round I am a bit concerned with what I have found in case wall consistancy in the sample brass I have on hand.

I have 50 cases which I agree is not a large enough sampling to make a solid judgement on case quality but while many are very good some are very inconsistant and I was looking to see if anyone had any solid evedince that case wall thickness variation would result in inconsistant performance down range.

This is a very large case so this must be taken into consideration. Lets just say case capacity will be more then 130 gr so variations in this size of a case will not effect results as much as say a RUM case with a 100 gr capacity or such.

Still this wildcat will have one main use, extreme range shooting.

Thanks for your time and thoughts as always!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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