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When to turn

 
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  #1  
Old 02-11-2009, 12:25 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 26
When to turn

Just wondering when you turn necks. I have brand new .284win WW brass and I'm going to neck turn just to clean them up (approx 80%). Do you turn necks before fireforming or after? Why? I like to trim to length after fireforming because the brass undergoes some serious stress and stretch that first fireforming shot. But what about neck turning?
My thinking would be to turn them after. I'm thinking I will:
1. Fireform
2. FL size
3. Trim to length
4. Run them through an expander mandrel
5. Turn necks

But I could:
1. Run them through an expander mandrel
2. Turn necks
3. Fireform
4. FL size
5. Trim to length

Any comments or opinions?
Thanks
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  #2  
Old 02-11-2009, 01:01 PM
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Re: When to turn

I use your second process.
Turn first

For many, this is normal, as unturned brass will not fit into their tight chambers.
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  #3  
Old 02-11-2009, 11:26 PM
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Posts: 867
Re: When to turn

Only turn necks if you have a tight neck chamber.
mike
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:47 PM
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Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Posts: 539
Re: When to turn

You didn't say if this was for a .284 Win or a Wildcat off of the .284

I only neck turn when necking down a caliber or more. For example If I'm making .243 Ackley brass using .308 Win Brass, I neck turn before Fire forming. If I'm using .243 Win, I do not. I happen to use .308 Lake City Match for my .243 Ai so neck turning is essential, but I only have to do it once.

I am also turning my necks for my 6.5-06 AI brass because I'm making it out of .270 Win Brass, just to clean it up. and uniform it. I'm not taking a full cut either, just enough.

None of my rifles have match chambers, so it's not terribly essential for my Standard caliber rifles.

Dan
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  #5  
Old 02-12-2009, 08:58 AM
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Re: When to turn

"Do you turn necks before fireforming or after? Why? "

Before. Otherwise you would need to fireform again to have a concentric neck.

You are doing right to only clean up 60-80% of the necks, doing more than absolutetly necessary just makes an already sloppy fit to the chamber worse.

It may be worthwhile to make a chamber cast and measure the actual maximum diameter you are working with. Just working off loading buok drawings is misleading, our chambers tend to be significantly larger than you might think.

Last edited by boomtube; 02-12-2009 at 09:02 AM.
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  #6  
Old 02-12-2009, 10:38 AM
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Re: When to turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomtube View Post
"Do you turn necks before fireforming or after? Why? "

Before. Otherwise you would need to fireform again to have a concentric neck.

You are doing right to only clean up 60-80% of the necks, doing more than absolutetly necessary just makes an already sloppy fit to the chamber worse.

It may be worthwhile to make a chamber cast and measure the actual maximum diameter you are working with. Just working off loading buok drawings is misleading, our chambers tend to be significantly larger than you might think.
Good point, i always heard turning necks on a factory chamber is making a mess out of a mess. I used to turn necks when i shot a 6 ppc .262 neck. Thats when neck turning is needed, also i was shooting custom bullets. One thing on neck turning shooting over the counter bullets they are no where close to a custom bullet almost every loaded round is going to be different gaining nothing. When i was shooting matchs with ppc i think i had 12 pieces of brass and of course all was turned. That had to be the biggest PITA i had ever done, i couldn't image sitting down and doing 100 pieces for my deer rifle.
mike
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  #7  
Old 02-12-2009, 11:45 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 26
Re: When to turn

Thank you very much for the replies. Sorry for not providing more info. boomtube, you really put my mind to rest, I will turn before, because then the fireforming shot will centre the case neck in the chamber. Also, I thought that now they have nice clean inside necks and will not interfere with going onto the turning mandrel.
I have been reloading for a long time; I have just never turned any necks. I have no experience turning necks. For this build I am going with a relative tight neck camber so that I can clean up my necks to provide more consistent neck tension when seating my bullets. I load many rounds by hand with an arbour press and Wilson dies and I'm finding too much variance in seating pressure. By the way, K&M make an arbour press with a pressure indicator. I am convinced that these variations are due to inner none concentric case necks because I do have case neck wall differences per case and I'm using Wilson bushing dies (without an expander button).
If you have none uniform case necks, and only size using a bushing die, you are inevitably inducing none circular case necks. The answer to this is to use an expander button. Out of personal preference I don’t like expander buttons. So my answer to the problem is to build a tight neck (.003" clearance total) chambered rifle and turn the brass.
The rifle is built on a Surgeon SA repeater with Badger bottom metal, a 24" Kreiger 1:9.5" twist #5 contour SS barrel. The reamer is made by Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool and Gage, it's set up for .284Win WW brass with a .317 neck and .090 freebore. My WW brass with loaded rounds measure .314 to .316, I'm going to turn them all to .314, and plan on using a .312/.313 bushing.
Remember that turning necks removes material, making them thinner and more prone to splitting. As mentioned here, excessive neck clearance to chamber will make a “sloppy fit”, and also weaken your case through excessive cold working of the brass through sizing. The .284 case is ideally suited to remove a thou or two as it's some pretty hefty stuff.

Last edited by heikki02003; 02-12-2009 at 01:19 PM.
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