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Reloading Techniques For Reloading


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Way in or way out ?

 
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  #8  
Old 02-07-2006, 08:54 PM
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Re: Way in or way out ?

We'll make this very simple BH. You tell all of us why seating against the lands works well when it does, and while you're at it, clue us all in as to why some bullets "like" a certain amount of jump.

Presumably you have these answers, but in your zeal to hammer me [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] , you've inadvertently omitted them from your above post.

I was not referring to BR shooters when I mentioned that seating close can negate the effects of runout. And I've never said that OCW load development is only good for 1/2 MOA. If you're gonna quote me, quote me right dammit! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Jimm, drop me a PM... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Dan
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  #9  
Old 02-07-2006, 09:28 PM
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Re: Way in or way out ?

And one more thing... please explain the following:

"A BR shooter normally start into the lands because we have only one way to go and that is out, rather than jump in and out of any other way as you prescribe on your site."

I'll check back in the morning... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old 02-07-2006, 09:51 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
Posts: 8,046
Re: Way in or way out ?

[ QUOTE ]
undergoing severe hunting withdrawal pains at this time , please help [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


Gotcha!

Yep, you're bored. Yep, every one has those kinds of things happen. Bet you can remember some really spectacular misses that there is no reason that you missed. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Yep, me too. Gremlins is what I call them. They are not there all the time. Just randomly and unannounced. If I tho't different I think I would be really hard to be around and my head would be really pointed. I don't think my dog could even get along with me.

I too was a benchrest shooter. Many moons ago. Had all the stuff. 40Xs, Hart barreled/Hart Sleeved, super hootie powdered scopes. Triggers in the ounces etc. Wasted a lot of summers doing that when I could have been harvesting something.

At what distance are you shooting the 1.? 30 feet? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

If its 100 yds or better you're talkin about, you're either hanging out on the wrong forum or forgot you Paxil/Zanx or whatever. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Having said all of that, there are times when things come together. Your 100 yd aggregate is in the 3s, your 200 yd aggregate is when adjusted for 100 yds is also in the 3s. Your small group was no smaller than middle 2s. In Idaho's high desert that's plenty good to win a match regardless of who flies in to take advantage of the locals. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

My greatest day was during a br match there were two of us neck and neck. Shot the 200 first. We were pretty much tied. Way ahead of the pack. Through the 1st 4 100 yd targets were were still neck and neck. Both shooting bug holes. All other shooters were done and gathered in the gallery behind spotting scopes. Ken would shoot. Gallery would give a sigh of relief. Another in the group. I would shoot. Same sigh of relief. Ken's 5th shot went "in there". I could tell from the sounds of the gallery. I had one shot to go.

Finally my rifle went bang! The sound from the gallery was one of dismay. My last shot was a full inch outside of the group. I went down in flames, they thought.

They wondered why I was carrying a bit of a smirk when I should have bending the barrel around a post!. When the targets came back to be scored and were posted on the wall, all eyes were on me. What had gone wrong? I was still smirking, kind of like this [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

With the targets on the wailing wall, I ask the closest guy to my target what the color was around the hole. He looked at the target and then looked at me with a confused look and said <font color="red"> RED? </font>.

Yep, I'd shot my first 100 yd fly. Would rather harvest something anyday than punch holes in paper. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

So smear some hamburger on your target and go shoot some snow flies, before this thread disrupts Len's living room. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Bye the way, I quit shooting BR that fall when HK came out with a semi-auto police rifle that would win an Idaho br shoot any day of the week shooting semi-auto from the magazine. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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  #11  
Old 02-07-2006, 09:58 PM
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Posts: 564
Re: Way in or way out ?

Somehow this old non-BR guy managed a fly as well... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]



And a lowly Savage shooting an OCW load at that... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Seriously, that 10FP has shot more than it's share of three shot bugholes. Not BR status, but not bad for a factory stick.

Dan
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  #12  
Old 02-07-2006, 10:00 PM
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Re: Way in or way out ?

Back on track,

My experience has been and still is that Spire points (Hornady's) always liked to be jumped in. Sierras just a "little" off the rifling and can be varied quite a bit. Wild Cats are about like the Sierras but have been a llittle more accurate and less finicky for me.

My experience is that the Hornady's when seated with the case mouth exactly even with the bottom of the crimping ring works the best. (I'll leave it up to you how long to make the trim length of the case. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) I think that's the secret.
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  #13  
Old 02-07-2006, 10:06 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
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Re: Way in or way out ?

[ QUOTE ]
And a lowly Savage shooting an OCW load at that... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Seriously, that 10FP has shot more than it's share of three shot bugholes. Not BR status, but not bad for a factory stick.

Dan

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, you're quick on the trigger. Sneaked in there between my posts and I wasn't dooddling. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I'll take credit for a better fly shot than yours. Your calibur was way bigger. My bullet weight was only 52 grains. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #14  
Old 02-08-2006, 07:45 AM
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Re: Way in or way out ?

This is an interesting thread. I'll throw in my observations to change the flavor of what's in this kettle.

How far a bullet should jump to the rifling varies as much as what components to use that makes 'em jump. Most interesting is what the different shooting discipline's best shots use and how they determine what works best.

The best test method to evaluate ammo for accuracy is one that is the most repeatable, has the most shots per group and has the best accuracy. It returns the barrel back to the exact same position held in the exact same place with exactly the same force or pressure.

At the top of this list in first place are the return-to-battery machine rested rigs used in unlimited class benchrest competition, testing highpower match rifles and testing bullets at a bullet making company. Such devices are shot virtually untouched by humans. These rigs are used at ranges from 100 to 1000 yards and shoot the smallest groups. Groups are typically 5 to 20 or more shots or the average of several of them.

In second place are benchrest rifles rested on sandbags untouched by humans except for the thumb and fore finger pinching the 2-oz. trigger to fire the shot. Again, groups are typically 5 or 10 shots or the average of several of them. And they're shot at ranges from 100 to 1000 yards.

Third place (and very close to what's in second place) belongs to highpower rifle shooters slung up in the prone position. Although they shoot for score at ranges from 300 to 1000 yards, their 15- to 20-shot "groups" are mentally measured by how far the shot strikes from where it was called.

Fourth place is relagated to varmint hunters who's 22 to 24 caliber rifles and ammo are tested off a bench. They hold their rifles against their shoulder gripping the stock's forend or toe with their off hand and the pistol grip with the trigger hand managing an 8-oz or heavier trigger. They test usually at 100 yards but sometimes at 200 or 300. Groups have more than 3 to 5 shots.

Fifth place are folks shooting 25 to 30 caliber hunting rifles tested the same way as varmint hunters; 3- to 5-shot groups at 100 yards and occasionally up to 300; rarely more. Triggers are typically heavier as well as recoil.

Sixth and last place belongs to folks shooting rifles greater than 30 caliber having heavier trigger pulls lots of recoil fired from the traditional bench setup used by those in fourth place. 100 yards is the typical test range and test groups have from 2 to 5 shots. These rifles are the hardest to shoot accurately.

If one compares the components used and how they're assembled across these groups, they'll discover an interesting fact. People in first and second place tend to use the same stuff within their respective disciplines assembled the same way. There isn't any significant difference.

Folks at the other end of the list have a wide range of components and assembly techniques whose results cover the whole spectrum. The number of "favorite" component and assembly lists is huge.

Keep this in mind when comparing handloading components/techniques A to B to C to..... Not only does it apply to how far bullets should be off the rifling before firing but everything else, too. How a "test" is conducted will greately effect the results. Test methods that produce the smallest groups typically use the best components assembled the best way.
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