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Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

 
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  #8  
Old 08-24-2008, 12:19 PM
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Re: Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

Well let me say this;
It's very easy to suggest that nothing done matters, when you don't actually know what does matter.

Some guy shot alright in competition using crooked ammo... Doesn't mean straight ammo is a waste of time.
He miraculously discovered that seating bullets against the lands, raises pressure.. Wow

If there was ever a barrel maker who knew what matters in AMMO, or even what makes one BARREL better than another, everything in shooting today would be way different.
The fact is, they don't. They make barrels like everybody else & we buy them -like everybody else.

Now, I don't know the answers either. Never claimed to. But I don't take stock in clan loar, heresay, anecdotal conclusions, or anything out of competition -as significant in the real world. Afterall, most competitors, don't win jack.
I'll say that in my experience, the best ammo you can make doesn't hurt a thing. And anything that helps YOUR barrel/ammo shoot better is a good thing -for YOU.

If your chamber likes new/loose brass better you can bet there is a reason, whether understood or not. But it doesn't really apply to everybody else..
Some of us have reduced ES and improved LR shooting by matching h20 capacity, which is only practical with fully fireformed brass. Some of us have to fireform just to produce our finished cartridges and get headspace right. Most of us re-use brass, simple as that.
I don't see how any conclusions can be drawn across the board though.
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:56 PM
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Re: Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
I'll say that in my experience, the best ammo you can make doesn't hurt a thing. And anything that helps YOUR barrel/ammo shoot better is a good thing -for YOU.
My thoughts exactly. Which was pretty much my response.

What sparked the conversation b/w the 2 of us was my comment that I have found once fired brass to be more accurate for me, even Lapua. I just proved it again for about the 100th time at the range yesterday with a 270 Ruger that sports a #1 Hart SS bbl. I began with 100 pieces of new WW cases that were wt. sorted, and prepped. The neck OD when loaded are 0.303. My die sizes them to 0.3015 w/o the expander.

I found a promising load with the 110 Barnes TTSX and 58.0 H4350. The rifle shot repeatable 5/8" groups down to 3/8".

I cleaned the fired brass, sized it, annealed the necks, and repeated the loads yesterday. No group was over 3/8" for 3 shot strings. Not bad for a bbl almost 26", long and skinny, not to mention a Ruger action.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:06 PM
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Re: Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

I know that I have 22-250 that will not group worth a crap with virgin brass because of a little to much headspace. There is a huge difference in virgin and once fired with it.
On the other hand my 6.5-284 shows no difference between virgin and once fired brass. Use your virgin brass to work up your loads and break your barrel in and I'll bet you that the load that was most accurate with virgin brass will be the most accurate with once fired brass also.

David
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:49 AM
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Re: Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

From the above posts I'm assuming that most comments are regarding factory barrels.

I'd like to start a discussion with Eddie, but I'm smarter than that, I'm pretty sure, well maybe. I'd most probably learn enough to become even more dangerous.

I wonder if the rules change with a high intensity/extreme cartridge with a really fast twist. If they do I'd like to start a discussion with Derek M, about into the lands or not. Again I'm smarter than that. Though not much.;)

My experience with a cartridge that requires fire forming causes to agree with mikecr's last statement "I don't see how any conclusions can be drawn across the board though."

I as well as others notice a bit of a difference in accuracy when using the COW method of fire forming. The difference is evident between the first and second "real" shot. One has to look really hard to see it but it's there.

I've been using a stout load for fire forming to develop drop charts etc and use them for "rifle golf" and they are plenty good enough. Being anal though, I verify after the first use of the case.

After the second firing of the case there is no more fiddling just shootin'.
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  #12  
Old 08-25-2008, 05:08 PM
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Re: Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

i have an edge which requires expanding of the necks. it wasn't my intent, but i have to clean the necks a bit to chamber loaded rounds. i'm convinced the accuracy is as good with virgin brass as fireformed, if not better. i only shoot FL sized ammo though.
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Old 08-25-2008, 06:01 PM
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Re: Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmgreene View Post
Use your virgin brass to work up your loads and break your barrel in and I'll bet you that the load that was most accurate with virgin brass will be the most accurate with once fired brass also.

David

Well, that's a theory as well, but one that also depends a lot on how much the case has changed, whether the neck is griping the bullet the same etc etc.

I *hope* you are right, but I know from experience that best accuracy combinations do vary between brass manufactureres (meaning the best load for a given gun using WW brass may be different than the best load for Rem Brass).

I think I am going to try several powders and bullets while running the first 50-100 rounds through the gun.

If they all suck, I'll try prepping some of the same load in once fired brass and see what I get.

If that still doesn't work, then its time for Tubb's abrasive Final Finish bullets.

And if its still scattering the slugs all around, well then I'll be quite unhappy...... I rally want 1/2 MOA accuacy out of this rig....
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