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Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

 
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  #1  
Old 08-23-2008, 11:41 PM
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Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

New Savage 270 WSM.

300 rds new Rem brass.

I'd like to jump right in and start looking for an accurate load, but there are two issues. One is that its usually though that barrels break in some and accuracy improves. I am considering doing some Tubb's Final Finish (abrasive bullets) to speed the break in up. But that's not the question of this thread.

The question I have is -- will I get better results if I once fire my cases and then full lenght resize (or perhaps better still, just resize till they chamber and cycle reliably in my ? In other words, "set the neck back a few thou make it chamber nice".

I think I know the answer and have pretty much answered my own question, but I'd like to hear it from others as well.

I'm thinking some cheap bullets and powder and go shooting, loading up a 100 rounds, in various recipe's. Obviously the accuracy will be suboptimal, particularly since I'll be cleaning a lot at first in the breakin. If initial accuracy is pretty good with cheap stuff, perhaps I'll forget about the Tubbs and just move on to final load developement.

Thoughts???
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  #2  
Old 08-24-2008, 05:03 AM
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Location: PA
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Re: Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

I doubt you will find much difference in accuracy. Virgin brass will expand to fill the chamber in your barrel. There is no need to full length resize until it grows at the shoulder, then you need to bump it back very slightly. With hunting rifles I full length resize every time; competition rifles I prefer to neck size only. I think you mean "set the shoulder back (not neck). Excessive shoulder push back creates excessive headspace; not good. Read your die instructions - they tell you to lower your die by very small increments until it chambers smoothly.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdherman View Post
New Savage 270 WSM.

300 rds new Rem brass.

I'd like to jump right in and start looking for an accurate load, but there are two issues. One is that its usually though that barrels break in some and accuracy improves. I am considering doing some Tubb's Final Finish (abrasive bullets) to speed the break in up. But that's not the question of this thread.

The question I have is -- will I get better results if I once fire my cases and then full lenght resize (or perhaps better still, just resize till they chamber and cycle reliably in my ? In other words, "set the neck back a few thou make it chamber nice".

I think I know the answer and have pretty much answered my own question, but I'd like to hear it from others as well.

I'm thinking some cheap bullets and powder and go shooting, loading up a 100 rounds, in various recipe's. Obviously the accuracy will be suboptimal, particularly since I'll be cleaning a lot at first in the breakin. If initial accuracy is pretty good with cheap stuff, perhaps I'll forget about the Tubbs and just move on to final load developement.

Thoughts???
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  #3  
Old 08-24-2008, 05:48 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 838
Re: Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

I would shoot the rifle and use the "break-in" method that you are most comfortable with. I would also avoid any abrasive treatment. Abrasives are only needed if the barrel will not stop copper fouling. Clean the bore thoroughly and use a good copper solvent.
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:05 AM
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Re: Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

I made it a practice to do my accuracy work with at least once fired cases. Here is the reason why. Once upon a time I bought a new Remington 700 stainless 7 mm mag rifle and 100 new cases. I free floated the barrel and adjusted the trigger to 2 lbs that I like on a hunting rifle. I started my load work-up using the new cases only. I could not get that rifle to shoot 3 shots under 1 3/4 inch @ 100 yards to save me. One day I decided to size some of the cases that I had fired in the rifle. I sized them only part way in a FL die. I just made them fit the chamber nice. I loaded up some of the best loads so far. When I went to the range and upon firing two shots there was only one hole in the target. I thought S#*+ :mad:, GREAT! Now the thing won't even hit the paper! Then I fired another shot and when I looked in the spotting scope I thought light bulb that hole looks just a little bit large for a 7mm bullet hole. I fired again. The hole looked just a tad bit larger. I began to get the shakes and fired the fifth and last shot. When I looked through the spotting scope I could see what looked like 1 1/2 bullet holes together. I went down range and low and behold there were five shots in one ragged hole . I later found that this rifle would shoot almost anything you put into it under 1 inch if you used a once or more fired case even if it was FL sized. That is the reason I use once fired cases. Your mileage might differ.
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  #5  
Old 08-24-2008, 09:50 AM
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Location: OHIO
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Re: Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

Here's some info from a prominent barrel maker when asking about virgin v. once fired brass:

"On case roundness and many like tests that sound good I have found they do almost nothing. Of interest to this my friend Col. Sam Burkhalter spent a lot of time with the AMU. They found full length sized case worked better than neck sized. Don't know if I mentioned this in the past to you. Back about 10 years or so ago I went through all the case selection measure base web and etc. Weighed everything. Went to Racine for practice and shot a really good 600 yards. Told the guys what I had done and reached into to my box to wave the box of ammo in front of them. OOPS, I had shot the box of culls by mistake. This proved to me how much is what the shooter does. I assumed no error in the ammo to blame so I simply did a better job as nothing else to blame it on.

Oh, what most don't see I have. I have a lot of pressure barrels and done a lot of pressure testing. Talk about touching lands: In a number of cases this causes pressure spikes. Worked with Federal on a project why some 6mm would blow primers. It happened in rough throated factory barrels which randomly slowed down the bullet motion at start. This is why touching is wrong as you cause the base of the bullet to distort more. Also you don't compress metal for the lands, it must move which is in length so a small jump actually helps you start. Also for alignment a throat wears faster at 6 O'clock then at the top so when touching it will tip. So much of what's common idea is simply male bovine excrement."
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  #6  
Old 08-24-2008, 10:12 AM
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Re: Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

Everything suggested by that barrel maker was excrement.
What the heck would a barrel maker know anyway?
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  #7  
Old 08-24-2008, 11:05 AM
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Re: Virgin versus once fired brass for accuracy, ??Best??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
Everything suggested by that barrel maker was excrement.
What the heck would a barrel maker know anyway?

Sarcasm on or off?
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