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Unique Reloading Issue, Ruger American 270 Win

 
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  #1  
Old 08-03-2013, 09:04 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Maine
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Unique Reloading Issue, Ruger American 270 Win

Hello all,

Long time lurker here. I have been loading for years, and I come from a long line of loading. This gun has made me extremely miffed and quite PO'd. A friend of mine received a Ruger American in 270 win. I do not like the caliber for very petty reasons, and honestly have never fired a round from one. That being said, I am reloading for my friend, and have come across a very difficult situation.

I have loaded several rounds for this firearm, and none will allow the bolt to close easily. I have looked at this from every angle that I honestly can. I need help in every way imaginable. I reload precision rounds all the time, from 223/5.56, 257 wby, 308, 300 wm, 338 fed, 7mm rm, anything you can imagine. This certain 270 has me pulling my own hair out.

Here is the problem laid out pretty simply. The bolt wont close. I've started from scratch. I've used RCBS fl resizing die, and a Lee die. I've seated with both as well. I've miked the case of a factory round that will fit. It works smooth as butter. My reload is every way the same. The factory round is Remington round nose, 130 gr. I am loading 150 hornady sst's. I have seated the round up and down, nothing will chamber easy. I can force the bolt closed if I'm using around 3.210" COAL, with book being 3:340", as well as the Hodgdon site saying 3.285" COAL. Nothing works. So I thought maybe it was the round. I tried one for my 6.8 SPC, 110 vmax at 3.210", still a no go.

I have trimmed all brass to 2.530", so I thought maybe that might be the problem. I took one down to 2.505", without any projectile, just resized and slid into the chamber. Still wouldn't close down. So at that point I started on the brass itself. I took a once fired, in his other 270win rifle, and it slid in. I resized, measured and it was at 2.548", which is over the length of 2.530". So I trimmed it down after sizing, and it wouldn't close.

I have tried several different types of brass. I have miked everything out, every part that may oversize. Everything is at or under the factory case that chambers with no problem. I have never had this issue before. The same exact case measurements from a once fired vs the factory will not allow easy bolt closure. I have worked the projectile in and out. I have trimmed short, allowed long. I can't think of anything that can change this.

I am intrigued at this point and can not give up until I have figured this out. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here are my steps:

1. Polish in walnut medium for several hours, brass-o as additive.

2. Full length resize in both LEE and RCBS 270 Winchester dies.

3. Trim cases to 2.530" length.

4. Chamfer and debur.

5. Clean primer pocket.

6. Seat with LEE hand primer CCI large rifle primers.

7. Charge with Supreme 780 at 55.0 gr, 150 Hornady SST's to depth from 3.210-3.285".

8. Fail at chambering.

9. Swear excessively. Throw random objects.

10. Scratch head.

So any help will be amazing. Anyone have any issues like this? Anyone loading for a Ruger American? If I need to add any information please let me know. Thanks

Seth
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2013, 09:34 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Carlsbad, NM
Posts: 156
Re: Unique Reloading Issue, Ruger American 270 Win

Does the virgin brass fit in the chamber, before any steps are done on it?

Does the sized brass fit in the chamber, before any more steps are performed on it?

No answers, just some questions that may help nail down the problem.
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2013, 09:56 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Redmond Or.
Posts: 2,527
Re: Unique Reloading Issue, Ruger American 270 Win

First off, I'm not being a smarta$$ when I suggest trying a paper shim.
I ran across an issue similar to this, & got "beat up" on every aspect of my hand loading technique from the "know it all-internet ninja-hand loading crowd".

I was loading for a rifle that didn't belong to me, but also on a cartridge I load on a regular basis. My loads were butter smooth, & proven at long range, on every other rifle I loaded for in that chambering. But no matter what I tried, trimming necks, running dies down, etc. Nothing would work.
I was stumped.
Turns out, it was a Very tight chambered rifle, & even though I'd bottomed out my Redding FL sizing die, on the RCBS shell holder on, on my Hornady Press, the brass still wouldn't fit. UNTILL I folded a small piece of paper, & put it between my shell holder & the brass. Like a shim if you will. Worked like a charm.
I still plan to get a whole set of shorter height shell holders (like .005 or .010 shorter ht.) just for this. I cringe at the thought of a paper shim as a "fix".
I had done everything as properly as my tools would allow. Running the dies down as far as they'd go & still too long etc. & got told by the internet experts, & armchair quarterbacks, that I was an incompetent idiot, & had no business loading precision LR Hunting rounds. (At which i am no rookie)
But It wasn't until I came across the perfect storm of an Extremely tight chamber, & the slight amount of err in my shell holders that I lost, & regained my confidence in my loading ability, & trouble shooting.

Anyway, sounded similar to your issue.
Good luck
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  #4  
Old 08-03-2013, 11:17 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 58
Re: Unique Reloading Issue, Ruger American 270 Win

I do not have virgin brass, it is all once fired from my friends separate 270. The once fired fit with no problem. I have been stumped on this all day, and have grown wary of it. I am literally cursing the firearm as it sits on its bipod in the middle of my living room floor.

Fire formed brass from a separate rifle fits perfectly. Smooth as glass. Once full length resizing, no go. I spoke to my father quickly tonight, as it was rather late, and he suggested backing the die off .020-.030" off the shoulder. It makes sense, as every other aspect measures perfectly. I was wondering if anyone had any kind of repeatable way to measure the shoulder angle? I gave one more hail mary and tried about .120" off the shoulder, as opposed to the .010-.015 I have been running.

His only advice to me was that the .270 is extremely finicky when it comes to neck resizing. I am case resizing to about .220" off the bottom of the case. I have always been taught to size the neck as far as possible, but have never loaded for the cursed .270. I load for .30-06 and have no problem from 155-200 gr rounds, so this is driving me batty.

Does anyone have a good sizing length for the .270? Also, as I KNOW I am over thinking this, what would be the best way to fix the 100 or so cases that I have sized, trimmed, chamfered/deburred to fit a different neck angle?

I am going to try to shim up a case tomorrow until the neck angle is also formed in my dies tomorrow, as ruining another case doesn't matter a bit to me at this point. I have NEVER been so frustrated with loading as I am right now. I have die formed 7mm RM brass to 257 WBY with less frustrations.

Thank you both for your responses, and I hope I addressed them.

1. I can't find virgin brass. So no help there.

2. Resized without any other case prep does not allow easy chambering, but forced can get some brass in. When I mike it, it comes out around 3.348"ish I belive.

3. Haven't tried shimming yet, next step.

4. Going to try backing it off until only half the neck is sized and go down by .010"s or so until perhaps it will work.

PS, I hate 270 winchester.
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  #5  
Old 08-04-2013, 09:08 AM
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Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
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Re: Unique Reloading Issue, Ruger American 270 Win

Hmmmmmmm!!!!!

Fired cases form other 270 I chambers smoothly. Correct?

Same case resized doesn't chamber in subject rifle. Correct?

Will that case chamber in the rifle in which iit was originally fired?

If no, then WTH? Die problem?

Being a somewhat a really impatient fella, about now or a lot earlier, that die would have had several counseling sessions with the bench grinder!

Maybe check case conentricity across its length.

PS, the 270 loads like any other of the '06 family of cases. It just shoots better.
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2013, 09:49 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 58
Re: Unique Reloading Issue, Ruger American 270 Win

Correct on both counts. And as I stated in my initial post, I've used two different sizing dies, so I'm thinking that isn't where the issue is. I'm assuming this rifle has only had a max of about 40 rounds down the tube, so my first task today will be dissasembly and full cleaning. Scrub out the chamber. I'm not a big fan of the bolt on this firearm, so I'm going to look at every inch of that as well. But still have a hard time accepting this issue.
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  #7  
Old 08-04-2013, 10:45 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Redmond Or.
Posts: 2,527
Re: Unique Reloading Issue, Ruger American 270 Win

Another bit of food for thought

It's not uncommon for brass from one rifle to not fit in another (which you already know, as per "no new brass available") but if your dies are properly FL sizing the brass it shouldn't matter.

So my next guess would be a lube issue? Not quite enough so it's getting hung up in the die? Might try just barely lubing the inside rim of the case neck to see if it prevents the expander ball getting partially hung up & stretching the brass back out on the up stroke?
You'd have to scrub it all out again, but...
Wild ***** Guess but worth a shot at this point.
I'm still betting the paper shim will allow full re-sizing & it'll fit tho. Not a permanent fix, but it can tell you if you have err on your shell holder if your bumping the dies on the up stroke when it cams over. At least you'll be able to identify the problems.

Ps. I Love anything 270, 30, & 338, but have a severe hatred for anything 7mm. So putting myself in your shoes, & pretending it was a 7mm I'd be throwing a tantrum by now. So I understand fanning the fire with problems on a cartridge you dislike.
Strange how we all develop a fondness or hatred of certain cartridges huh. Makes it hard to accept its not the cartridges fault. There's an issue somewhere, you've just gotta find it, & fix it.

Keep us posted. I'd like to see what you find out.
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"Its not Rocket Surgery.....'
GOD,GUNS,&GUTTS MADE AMERICA, LETS KEEP ALL 3!winmag

"I have No idea why that cop made me ride in the back seat, when I Clearly called Shotgun!"
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