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Tuning a load

 
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  #29  
Old 01-12-2013, 12:51 PM
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Re: Tuning a load

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4xforfun View Post
I am fishing for the point here, but I don't understand.

If your point is that there is no one powder/bullet/primer/brass/firerarm combo that is absolute best, then you also are 100% correct. To say that there is a "perfect" combo for every gun is pure hogwash.

BUT.....Are you saying that the OP should go out and buy a half dozen different powders, a half dozen different bullets, different primers, and maybe some brass from different makers and test EVERYTHING. That is strange, because when Kirby Allen or Shaun Carlock say go get some H1000, some 300 grain Bergers, and some fed 215 primers for your new Edge, they don't get any arguments from anyone on this fourm.

Look at Short range BR.....about 95% of the shooters shoot the same powder.

Look at Long range BR 90+% of the dasher guys use RL 15...eight more use Varget. 90 % of the 300 WSM guys shoot H4350. 90 % of the 300 WBY/ackly,ect shooters use RL25.

Look at the Edge shooters....90%+ are shooting H1000.

To say that A guy shooting XYZ cartridge can't be pointed into the right direction as far as powder at LEAST 50 % of the time by knowlagable shooters seems odd to me. But then again, maybe I am not one of the "knowlegable shooters"!!
What I took from that is, he's saying that at this point there's been enough load development with enough different combinations, that you shouldn't need to start from scratch. Rather research the combo/s and you should get a very good idea of what will work for you're purposes. Same thing you're saying. That last bit I thought was just being sarcastic.

I agree though unless your sepping into an uncommon wild cat or using a brand new bullet or both there really isn't much need to develop a load 100% from the ground up, but you can get there with a lot less hassle if you just do a bit of research, compare to published data, apply common sense, and learn from the other guys efforts.

If your looking at combo a and find, x number of other have tried that combo and got good result in a certain window, you'll probably have similar results in the same window. Not always but usually thats true.
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Keep in mind the animals we shoot for food and display are not bullet proof. Contrary to popular belief, they bleed and die just like they did a hundred years ago. Being competent with a given rifle is far more important than impressive ballistics and poor shootability. High velocity misses never put a steak in the freezer.

Joe
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  #30  
Old 01-12-2013, 01:36 PM
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Re: Tuning a load

Yeah I'm talking about bests per cartridge/guns.

And yes ballpark loads have been hammered out in extremely limited scenarios.
Still, 90% of Edge shooters using H1000, in no way defines a 'standard' load combination that is best.
We are not evolving towards anything defined or standardized.

To get the most from our guns, each of us is truly on our own.
Nobody desires trying different bullets, seating depths, primers, firing pin settings, cases, and powders.
Many pick up front & stubbornly stick with chosen components, and adjust only what's easiest (powder amount). But it's improbable with this that they'll reach any better than 'good enough', as there is a lot more to a load than powder amount.
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  #31  
Old 01-12-2013, 01:47 PM
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Re: Tuning a load

Joe,


Like I said, that post form Mikecr went right over my head. I've said it a hundred times before...I am not the sharpest crayon in the box. I didn't know if we agreed 100% or not.

As far as the sacasm thing......I am about the most self depricating person on the planet, and most of my sarcasm is pointed at myself. There are very knowlageable shooters on this fourm....And MikeCR is one of them...and BROZ, and Kirby , and Sean ,and on and on and on..... I am not sure if I rank among them or not...probably not. The sarcasm part was partly aimed at myself...partly.... but also the being blessed by GOD or being an internet expert remark. Pretty sure I haven't been blessed by anybody lately!!


If I struck a nerve with the sarcasm thing I do truly apologize. It was ment to funny more than anything.

I think we mostly all agree....the OP can grab some H1000 , 168 berger vld's, and some Fed 215's and probably get what he is loking for.

Thanks,
Tod
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  #32  
Old 01-12-2013, 02:19 PM
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Re: Tuning a load

Tod I wasn't referring to your post but Mikes, sorry for the confusion
__________________
Keep in mind the animals we shoot for food and display are not bullet proof. Contrary to popular belief, they bleed and die just like they did a hundred years ago. Being competent with a given rifle is far more important than impressive ballistics and poor shootability. High velocity misses never put a steak in the freezer.

Joe
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  #33  
Old 01-12-2013, 03:02 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 880
Re: Tuning a load

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
Yeah I'm talking about bests per cartridge/guns.

And yes ballpark loads have been hammered out in extremely limited scenarios.
Still, 90% of Edge shooters using H1000, in no way defines a 'standard' load combination that is best.
We are not evolving towards anything defined or standardized.

To get the most from our guns, each of us is truly on our own.
Nobody desires trying different bullets, seating depths, primers, firing pin settings, cases, and powders.
Many pick up front & stubbornly stick with chosen components, and adjust only what's easiest (powder amount). But it's improbable with this that they'll reach any better than 'good enough', as there is a lot more to a load than powder amount.
Mike....again, you are 100% correct. We are truly on our own.

100 % correct...there is more to a load than powder amount.

100 % correct...most people stick with their origonal components and do limited tinkering.

The OP wanted to try 168's first. I say a good choice....this LRH...If it were BR Central I would have questioned his choice. The op wanted to know if he should try more than one powder at a time or one at a time, wring it out , and move on. He wanted us to point him to the best powder choice(s) for his chosen caliber/bullet. Asked and answered and mostly agreed upon.

You are correct, there is no way to tell him the exact combo to use. He stated that he knows that he needs to "test and play around with OAL". NOBODY can tell him what his gun likes but the gun itself. He is aware that it can take a huge effort and lots of experamenting with lots of components to wring out that ABSOLUTE best accuracy in any gun.....not just "powder amount". He stated how hard it was to tune his 30-06....which is now a hole in hole shooter. GOOD ON HIM!!!

And I can gaurantee one thing......H1000 and the 168 Berger WILL NOT give him the absolute best accuracy with that gun....well lets say that I am 99.5% sure.....My guess is that there will some mid weight, flat based target bullet that will shoot the absolute best with a little faster powder. But at what cost? How many combos will he need to try. This is the LRH fourm....how much of the "LR" in LRH is he gonna loose to get that absolute best grouping load. How about bullet performance..is that great grouping combo the best choice for (LR) hunting.

Like I said, if it don't work out, move on...try a different bullet with the H1000...maybe a diff powder. No use flogging a dead horse by staying with the same components. My point is that there comes a time when "good enough" is ...well...good enough. We all know that it won't be the "absolute best". I say that for a medium to long range hunting gun, 1/2 to 3/4 moa is very acceptable. Do we all want that sub 1/4 moa setup?...Every freakin one of us do..with out a doubt. But at what cost, in time, in components, in bbl life, money...? I'd say that if he was a lunatic accuracy freak, like lots of us here are, he would be best served with a full on custom rig.

I think that we are all on the same page. Where I may differ...right or wrong....is that he doesn't need the ABSOLTE BEST GROUPING combo....use the proper bullet for the job and let good enough be good enough.

Am I wrong in my thinking?
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  #34  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:59 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
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Re: Tuning a load

Ill agree somewhat with a few of you. First this is expensive. Maybe more so then some will want to tackle. I dont ride motorcyles anymore i dont buy snowmobiles anymore. I shoot. It is MY HOBBY. For the most part the powders and bullets are allready on my shelf. Ive got enough bolt action guns that ive tired this in that i have a real good selection of bullets that worked and didnt. Ill also agree that picking a powder can be narrowed down much easier then the projectile. If I had to chose between having 3 powders or 6 bullets to try id definetely take the differnt bullets. Im fussy enough that i spend the winter loading for all my bolt guns. Every year im trying another 20 or so combinations just in the hope i can find something just a tad better. Is it nessisary? Hell no. But agian its what i love to do and if your a shooter why would you not want to shoot a few more rounds to find something a bit better.
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  #35  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:31 PM
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Re: Tuning a load

We're on the same page
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