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Tuning a load

 
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  #22  
Old 01-11-2013, 10:04 PM
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Location: The cold part of Montana
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Re: Tuning a load

Retumbo works great for the 180's or bullets with a longer bearing length, H100seems to be in that sweet spot for the 168's. This past season I gave the 168gr classic hunter a go and I have to say it shot well for me all through the load work up. One thing I found with it is that that bullet is really insensitive to seating depth, I mean the difference between the worst and best when I varied seating depth was only a 1/4moa. But (Walt did say this when I emailed him about it) you'll see a velocity drop from what the VLD gets, apparently it is due to the longer bearing length. As for on game performance, I shot a muley at about 50yrds, no it didn't exit, didn't expect it to with an impact vel of 2900fps, but I didn't loose much meat at all either. The pressure wave though deflated his heart, it was weird it was like an empty sack.

In my research of 168gr loads using H1000 I found most settle on their powder charge between 69gr and 71gr with the majority being around 70gr.
__________________
Keep in mind the animals we shoot for food and display are not bullet proof. Contrary to popular belief, they bleed and die just like they did a hundred years ago. Being competent with a given rifle is far more important than impressive ballistics and poor shootability. High velocity misses never put a steak in the freezer.

Joe

Last edited by Joe King; 01-11-2013 at 11:38 PM. Reason: fixed an oopps
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  #23  
Old 01-11-2013, 10:19 PM
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Re: Tuning a load

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkupper View Post
I will definately start with the H-1000 then. I had to go out and get some this week because this is my first magnum gun, and dad has a 308 norma mag, but only loads 4350 or 4831 (can't remember which) in it. I have seen several posts where people have been shooting the h-1000 ina 7mmRM. Is Retumbo just not very good? I've seen several posts that don't care for it, and some that do, but the h1000 seems to be the powder of choice overall.

Not to worried about the mag at this point. It seems like there will be plenty of room there, but will shoot it single shot to get good accuracy if I have to.
No....don't get me wrong...Retumbo is wonderfull powder...I just think that it is a tad slow for the 7REM.....maybe when the Berger 195 comes out I will change my tune. So are the various 4350's and 4831's...just a tad fast for the 7 when using 168 class bullets. That H1000, and maybe even RL22, is right in the wheelhouse of the 7 with the 168 class pills. Near 100 % load densities and the h1000 is very temp stable.

Now, I was told once that there HAS to be something out there better than H1000. Probably is...maybe one guns might like 7828 or rl22 or ...what ever. It took me a while....and I still fight the "infection"...to realize when good enough is good enough. Lets say you acheve a .6 moa load for your factory gun.....I am just throwing numbers up...you pick it if you would like. There very well might be a combo out there that gets you 30% smaller groups. WOW...30 %....that's alot. Yes...in benchrest maybe..but not hunting. that thirty % took you from 6 inch groups at 1000 to 4 inch groups at 1000. H U G E in 1000 BR...meaningless in a hunting situation....instead of missing dead center aim by 2 inches, you missed by 3 inches at 1000....meaningless....and may well take you a few hundred rounds to find. I love trigger time, but sometimes enough is enough. But...like I said....it is an infection. TINKERITCE....and it's all fun!!!!

Give H1000 a try...it's a factory gun, so I make no promises, but you should find an accurate, high velocity load for your 7 mag.
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  #24  
Old 01-11-2013, 10:43 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 436
Re: Tuning a load

Joe, thanks for the info on the Retumbo. I am thinking about trying the 180's later on, so I will definitely hang onto it for later use.

4xForfun, I think this 700 is going to be a shooter! I bought a box of federal ammo because I had the urge to shoot the gun while I was waiting for the supplies to come in. As I was working through them and breaking in the barrel, I save the last 4 rounds. They were just the Federal blue box 175 gr. SP. I shot the first one to foul the barrel again after the break in cleaning. I then shot a three shot group with the last three. they made a nice 3/4" clover leaf at 100 yards. I'm sure I can do a little better than that with some hand loads worked up. I was fairly tickled that it shot factory ammo that well as none of my other rifles have. Makes me want to
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  #25  
Old 01-12-2013, 05:42 AM
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Re: Tuning a load

you might get away with that in a custom barreled gun or a factory rifle if 1.5 inch 100 yard groups are your goal but most factory rifles are pretty picky about what it takes to make them moa. If you REALLY WANT to know what shoots the absolute best in your gun the ONLY way your going to find out is to shoot it. Your not going to find it with one bullet and your sure not going to find it by asking what someone elses gun on the internet shoots well. you might get some good starting advice as to which bullets or powders to try. That advice will help most inexperienced loaders get a start but most here allready know the basics and know what MIGHT shoot well in a certain caliber. Ive been handloading for 40 years. In that time ive owned and loaded for AT LEAST 50 bolt action and single shot rilfes. Probably close to twice that. Ive NEVER saw a gun that did its absolute best with the first bullet and powder combo ive tried in it. Your one lucky sob if it happened to you and if your claiming it happened more then once your either blessed by God or just another internet expert. Sure would be nice though to be so intellegent that when i bought a new gun I knew what it would shoot. It would sure make those 2 or 3 hundred boxes of bullets on the shelf seem silly and the cabinet full of differnt powders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4xforfun View Post
So lets see....

5 different bullets
3 different powders
a couple different primers
at least 5 different charge weights with EACH powder/bullet/primer combo.....if you are going to do it right, that is.
AND...AND you are going to mess with seating depths!!!

I see about a hundred groups....BEFORE you start messing with seating depths!!!

I'll save you some time.

First...pick the caliber.

Second pick ONE bullet that will best suit your needs. it will help you if you ask people here about "which bullit"....even though it has been asked a million times.

Third, pick the brains of the people here on this website who shoot your chosen bullet/caliber combo about which powder/primer/ combo that they use.

Forth...forget the manual when it comes to seating depth.....measure your chamber, and if you have one and are going to use it, measure your mag length...and start twenty thou in..or out...or where ever you wish. Load up four or five different charge weights and test.

With every gun I load for I find two things...where max loads are with this perticular rifle, and where the accuracy nodes are. I keep going up till I see PSI signs...only then will you know!!! If that takes several more rounds down the tube, i am good with that.
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  #26  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:59 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 865
Re: Tuning a load

Quote:
Originally Posted by lloydsmale View Post
you might get away with that in a custom barreled gun or a factory rifle if 1.5 inch 100 yard groups are your goal but most factory rifles are pretty picky about what it takes to make them moa. If you REALLY WANT to know what shoots the absolute best in your gun the ONLY way your going to find out is to shoot it. Your not going to find it with one bullet and your sure not going to find it by asking what someone elses gun on the internet shoots well. you might get some good starting advice as to which bullets or powders to try. That advice will help most inexperienced loaders get a start but most here allready know the basics and know what MIGHT shoot well in a certain caliber. Ive been handloading for 40 years. In that time ive owned and loaded for AT LEAST 50 bolt action and single shot rilfes. Probably close to twice that. Ive NEVER saw a gun that did its absolute best with the first bullet and powder combo ive tried in it. Your one lucky sob if it happened to you and if your claiming it happened more then once your either blessed by God or just another internet expert. Sure would be nice though to be so intellegent that when i bought a new gun I knew what it would shoot. It would sure make those 2 or 3 hundred boxes of bullets on the shelf seem silly and the cabinet full of differnt powders.

There it is again....TINKERITICE. "If you REALLY WANT to know what shoots the absolute best in your gun the ONLY way to find it is to shoot it."

That statement is 100% correct.....without a doubt. Absolutly no argument from me. Who am I to argue with that statement. I don't have your 40 years of experiance. I must be one of those"internet experts".

But at what cost? He trys the 168 VLD..a bullet that he really wants to try...and trys H1000, a powder that is recomended by more than a few people...and gets group size that will take him out as far as he can shoot, what is he to gain by shooting a bunch more stuff? Sure...if the thing won't shoot the combo, it won't shoot the combo...so move on and try again.

To go out and buy eleventeen kinds of powder and twelvteen different bullets right out of the gate is a waste of good money, IMO.
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  #27  
Old 01-12-2013, 10:20 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NC, oceanfront
Posts: 3,152
Re: Tuning a load

Wouldn't it be reasonable that the last century of heavy firearms use would have resulted in standards that held?
That we wouldn't have to start over from scratch(trial & error) with every component in every load in every gun?

Well, apparently this will never be..
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  #28  
Old 01-12-2013, 11:06 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 865
Re: Tuning a load

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
Wouldn't it be reasonable that the last century of heavy firearms use would have resulted in standards that held?
That we wouldn't have to start over from scratch(trial & error) with every component in every load in every gun?

Well, apparently this will never be..
I am fishing for the point here, but I don't understand.

If your point is that there is no one powder/bullet/primer/brass/firerarm combo that is absolute best, then you also are 100% correct. To say that there is a "perfect" combo for every gun is pure hogwash.

BUT.....Are you saying that the OP should go out and buy a half dozen different powders, a half dozen different bullets, different primers, and maybe some brass from different makers and test EVERYTHING. That is strange, because when Kirby Allen or Shaun Carlock say go get some H1000, some 300 grain Bergers, and some fed 215 primers for your new Edge, they don't get any arguments from anyone on this fourm.

Look at Short range BR.....about 95% of the shooters shoot the same powder.

Look at Long range BR 90+% of the dasher guys use RL 15...eight more use Varget. 90 % of the 300 WSM guys shoot H4350. 90 % of the 300 WBY/ackly,ect shooters use RL25.

Look at the Edge shooters....90%+ are shooting H1000.

To say that A guy shooting XYZ cartridge can't be pointed into the right direction as far as powder at LEAST 50 % of the time by knowlagable shooters seems odd to me. But then again, maybe I am not one of the "knowlegable shooters"!!
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