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super tight chamber??

 
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  #8  
Old 02-12-2012, 08:41 PM
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Location: Casselberry, FL
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Quality handloads require measuring.

It's best to not guess if your handloads will chamber. When belted magnum cases bulge, they can be measured with ordinary calipers. The shoulder clearance of your handloads can also be easily measured with the Digital Headspace Gauge.

Even when you're loading for just ONE rifle, your cases usually bulge above the belt - sooner or later. This bulge doesn't happen in the chamber, and it never happens on the first firing. This case bulge happens during the reloading process because of a weakened area just above the web (solid part of the case).

This is how it happens . . . . .

Factory belted ammo headspaces on the belt, and the shoulder gets blown forward .015" to .025" at the very first firing. That stretches, thins, and weakens belted cases far more than any non-belted case will ever experience. After that, the cumulative wear from reloading (pushing downward on the case) eventually causes a bulge at the weakest place - just above the belt.

Unlike factory ammo, handloads MUST headspace on the shoulder.
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  #9  
Old 02-12-2012, 11:42 PM
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Re: Quality handloads require measuring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larrywillis View Post
Unlike factory ammo, handloads MUST headspace on the shoulder.
I disagree.

I've worn out three .30-.338 barrels (two standard and one with the Keele version using .300 Win Mag cases) and accuracy with new and resized fired cases was the same. Fired cases were double sized (first time with a standard full length sizing die setting the shoulder back just enough to permit headspacing on the belt then a body die to reduce the ridge in front of the belt back to new case diameter; same thing the Willis collet die does) Accuracy for both new and resized cases with 20+ shot groups at 1000 yards was well under 7 inches. I'm not the only person to get such results; there are others.

Back when the 30 caliber magnums were "the" cartridge for long range matches, the above methods resulted in virtually of the match winning and record setting scores.
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  #10  
Old 02-13-2012, 12:25 AM
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Location: NW Mt.
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Re: super tight chamber??

The cases I have had stick from being to large in the od really stick. And the bolt opens
until the extractor hits the rim and then stops like it hit a wall. A case that is head spaced
too long will just cause a hard bolt lift from the beginning of it's movement until the
pressure comes off. I suggest another shell holder with a few thousands taken off if you
have to reuse the cases. I can't stress enough to etch , dipple, blue or what ever else
you have to do to mark that modified shell holder from your stock one. You'll ruin a lot
of brass if you don't.
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  #11  
Old 02-13-2012, 08:41 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Casselberry, FL
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Re: super tight chamber??

Loner ........

Grinding down your shellholder allows your sizing die to push the case shoulder back too far. When your problem is excessive case WIDTH, this does nothing to help your handloads fit better.

Here's what happens when you push the shoulder more than .002"

When your round is fired, the brass stretches even farther as it expands to fit the chamber. This cumulative stretching (at each firing) thins your brass until it is paper thin. This thinned brass makes is even easier to bulge during the reloading process. Your cases still won't chamber; and if they do, you'll experience case head separations.



Picture from WWW.LARRYWILLIS.COM
This picture shows a cut-away view of a belted case that had the shoulder pushed back too far. It was stretched (after 3 firings) until it became dangerously thin.

It's always best to "measure" your cases, to determine why your handloads don't fit.


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  #12  
Old 02-13-2012, 10:20 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Re: super tight chamber??

i never really ran into this problem before simply because i usually never mix brass between rifles.
As noted above brass that was fired from this rifle alone ...chamber in and out fine.
I fully understand your concept of the case bulging above the belt.
I guess i just never ran into the resizing problem before because i usually don't mix brass.
At this point i'm curious to see what happens to brass that is fired in this rifle alone and neck sized only.
I could be wrong , but i don't anticipate any problems. i should be able to as usual , get several loadings from brass, as long as i don't try resizing brass from other rifles.
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  #13  
Old 02-13-2012, 10:33 AM
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Location: Casselberry, FL
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Re: super tight chamber??

shade mt ........

You could be right if several means 3 to 5 firings. If you don't want to measure your chamber clearance at the shoulder (and set your die height accurately), then it would definitely be better to just neck size.

However, I know of about 4,000 shooters that would disagree with your last statement.
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  #14  
Old 02-13-2012, 11:15 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Re: super tight chamber??

Quote:
Originally Posted by shade mt View Post
At this point i'm curious to see what happens to brass that is fired in this rifle alone and neck sized only.
I could be wrong , but i don't anticipate any problems. i should be able to as usual , get several loadings from brass, as long as i don't try resizing brass from other rifles.
While neck only sizing of bottleneck cases is popular, the folks that probably have done the most testing for accuracy with both belted and rimless bottleneck cases have been full length sizing fired cases setting their shoulder back a few thousandths. They now use Redding full bushing dies for cartridges they're made for and Redding standard full length sizing dies for the rest. Very few folks shoot their bullets as accurate as they do from test barrels chambered to SAAMI specs. I'm referring to Sierra Bullets, who have been full length sizing all their cases used to test their products for accuracy since the 1950's.
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