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Stiff chambering

 
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  #15  
Old 08-23-2012, 11:40 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
Re: Stiff chambering

Thanks for all the reply's so far. Tomorrow I will try to find some time to check some of your suggestions. I don't think I am doing any crimping but will double check to make sure. I use just a standard champher/debur tool. The press I am using is an RCBS one that a friend had sitting in a garage for years, and was rusted a little. I cleaned it up good but, will also check for slop in the press stroke. I will look and make sure everything is square as well.

As far as the brass sizing. I am bumping the shoulder .002" (according to hornady headspace kit). I measured the case necks and they were the same as factory loaded ammo that chambers easily. I only load .308 and 6mm cals so no mix ups. I will inspect the shoulders for buckling.

Thanks
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  #16  
Old 08-24-2012, 08:39 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: The cold part of Montana
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Re: Stiff chambering

Originally I was wondering if you didn't get ahold of a bad run of bullets, unlikely though.

So here's what can be possible causes.
Bad press: out of alignment, excess wear, die mounting hole out of square.......

Bad dies: sizing die not square, expander ball pulling the case neck out of square, seating stem bent, seating die not square, wrong seating plug profile for bullets used.

or a combination.

If everything checks out have your rifle checked over by a gunsmith, could be a bad cambering job, unsquare bolt face.

Something is most likely out of square, these are the things I can think of right of the top of my head. Hope you get figured out to be an easy fix, and don't overlook operator error.
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Keep in mind the animals we shoot for food and display are not bullet proof. Contrary to popular belief, they bleed and die just like they did a hundred years ago. Being competent with a given rifle is far more important than impressive ballistics and poor shootability. High velocity misses never put a steak in the freezer.

Joe
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  #17  
Old 08-24-2012, 12:51 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
Re: Stiff chambering

Well I got a chance to look at everything again. Here is kind of a list of what I did and the result.

check the press for slack=good
check the press/dies for squareness = ok some slack in the threads causing a little causing a little unevenness. I think maybe a rubber o-ring to snug down onto.
Seated reloaded bullet deeper= still stiff bolt turn down
marked case at shoulder to check for shoulder issues = small rub on one side.
compared measurements from that reloaded stiff shoulder to sized brass that chambers clean = essentially the same.
reset seating die by putting usized brass in running press to the top, then I turned down the die till i felt light contact, backed out 1 full turn.

made sure the champher was pretty good on a couple of sized brass.
Seated a bullet = chambered smooth and easy
try again = same result.

Ok well may as well take out any other variables so I primed the case = stiff bolt close. Now this had me confused as it looked flush. Put back into hand primer and worked the handle while turning case. Now both rounds chambered smooth again. put a piece of paper on top of push rod and seated all primers in loaded rounds again. Most rounds started chambering smooth.

long story short. I will be much more maticulous on my reload process, and will be cleaning the primer pockets now (didnt worry about it before). I will also check squareness of my seating die when I get a chance, and leave the expander loose so it wont pull one way or the other. I still have some runout but more precise dies are a future project, and I will do what I can with what I have for now. Let me know if there is any other suggestions you have for me.

Thanks Again.
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  #18  
Old 08-25-2012, 08:25 AM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: N.D.
Posts: 2,812
Re: Stiff chambering

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonoldman View Post
Well I got a chance to look at everything again. Here is kind of a list of what I did and the result.

check the press for slack=good
check the press/dies for squareness = ok some slack in the threads causing a little causing a little unevenness. I think maybe a rubber o-ring to snug down onto.
Seated reloaded bullet deeper= still stiff bolt turn down
marked case at shoulder to check for shoulder issues = small rub on one side.
compared measurements from that reloaded stiff shoulder to sized brass that chambers clean = essentially the same.
reset seating die by putting usized brass in running press to the top, then I turned down the die till i felt light contact, backed out 1 full turn.

made sure the champher was pretty good on a couple of sized brass.
Seated a bullet = chambered smooth and easy
try again = same result.

Ok well may as well take out any other variables so I primed the case = stiff bolt close. Now this had me confused as it looked flush. Put back into hand primer and worked the handle while turning case. Now both rounds chambered smooth again. put a piece of paper on top of push rod and seated all primers in loaded rounds again. Most rounds started chambering smooth.

long story short. I will be much more maticulous on my reload process, and will be cleaning the primer pockets now (didnt worry about it before). I will also check squareness of my seating die when I get a chance, and leave the expander loose so it wont pull one way or the other. I still have some runout but more precise dies are a future project, and I will do what I can with what I have for now. Let me know if there is any other suggestions you have for me.

Thanks Again.
Sounds like the high primers were it. Also watch you Winchester brass if you use any for shallow pockets that need to be reamed a bit deeper to be spec.. I have run into a few hundred on these lately. If a primer isn't .002" below flush it's not really deep enough. Some actions can either jamb(revolvers) or have mis-fires(semi-autos) on shallow primers. Bolt guns are more forgiving but high-primers can still mess with loc-time and ignition uniformity.
I would pull you bullets and powder before you re-seat primers. You can always run the case through the sizer again to get your neck tension up to snuff if you need to. Use a collet puller and you won't damage anything and all can be re-used.
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  #19  
Old 08-25-2012, 09:11 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,868
Re: Stiff chambering

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonoldman View Post

Ok well may as well take out any other variables so I primed the case = stiff bolt close. Now this had me confused as it looked flush. Put back into hand primer and worked the handle while turning case. Now both rounds chambered smooth again. put a piece of paper on top of push rod and seated all primers in loaded rounds again. Most rounds started chambering smooth.

long story short. I will be much more maticulous on my reload process, and will be cleaning the primer pockets now (didnt worry about it before). I will also check squareness of my seating die when I get a chance, and leave the expander loose so it wont pull one way or the other. I still have some runout but more precise dies are a future project, and I will do what I can with what I have for now. Let me know if there is any other suggestions you have for me.

Thanks Again.
I cant use any of those hand primer "machines". Arthritis!... I use a ram primer on the press but now use an RCBS primer tool with the long handle ( forget the name)..(RCBS automatic bench mounted priming tool)..
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  #20  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:25 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,114
Re: Stiff chambering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty7mmstw View Post
If a primer isn't .002" below flush it's not really deep enough. Bolt guns are more forgiving but high-primers can still mess with loc-time and ignition uniformity.
Ignition uniformity; yes, sometimes a whole bunch; causes vertical shot stringing. Happens with weak firing pin springs, too.

Messing with lock time; yes, but here's an example of how much. If a firing pin's fall to a primer seated .002" below the case head is .0025 seconds, a primer seated .002" above the case head, lock time wil be about .00246 seconds; 1.6% faster as the primer's .004" closer (assuming it's not been seated fully by firing pin impact). As lock times (in the best of mechanical systems) have a 3 to 4 percent spread, that's insignificant. Ignition time may vary; that's the time between the primer's cup starting to dent in smashing the anvil and crushing the priming pellet detonating (fast burning) it.
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  #21  
Old 08-25-2012, 01:05 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Wherever the Army sends me
Posts: 15
Re: Stiff chambering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
Ignition uniformity; yes, sometimes a whole bunch; causes vertical shot stringing. Happens with weak firing pin springs, too.

Messing with lock time; yes, but here's an example of how much. If a firing pin's fall to a primer seated .002" below the case head is .0025 seconds, a primer seated .002" above the case head, lock time wil be about .00246 seconds; 1.6% faster as the primer's .004" closer (assuming it's not been seated fully by firing pin impact). As lock times (in the best of mechanical systems) have a 3 to 4 percent spread, that's insignificant. Ignition time may vary; that's the time between the primer's cup starting to dent in smashing the anvil and crushing the priming pellet detonating (fast burning) it.
What he is saying in short is only the top bench rest shooters may see the difference. I am NOT one of those, most of here arent either lol
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