Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Reloading

Reloading Techniques For Reloading


Reply

Stable Powder

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-30-2005, 12:27 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Joseph Oregon
Posts: 115
Stable Powder

I have a month off for Christmas and the ranchs i work on are thinking that they want need me so i have to kill a lot of time. So this looks like were i am going to be building my hunting loads for a my rifles.

Were i live it is very cold during this time of year warm days may hit 32F. I need a good stable powder(s) to work up my loads for two rifles.

Savage 11f 223
Savage 116 300wm

Im not lookin for powders that will make it possible to drive tiny little groups, though it would be nice. What i am looking for is a powder(s) that will not be change to much from this Dec cold to when i go hunting during the spring and fall, when it can get up to 100F.

I will be shooting 55g bullets out of the 223 and Nosler Partions and Accubounds out of the 300wm probably of the 180g class.

Anything is apprciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-30-2005, 03:19 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Great Falls, MT
Posts: 701
Re: Stable Powder

robins: Hogdon makes a line of powders called "Extreme" powders, they are made to be very tolerant of temperature changes. Ramshot powders are also not affected by temperature change. Either of these lines of powders would work nicely for you. Good luck,
Jim
__________________

Raptor Stalker by
Kirby Allen APS
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-30-2005, 05:13 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Joseph Oregon
Posts: 115
Re: Stable Powder

I am looking at not spending a fortune, however before i put my foot in my mouth i have not checked prices on these. I use now imr 4831 and w748. How stable are these.

Additionally is this somethin that i should worry to much about how much will the temp change effect the accuracy.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-30-2005, 05:59 PM
SPONSOR
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: El Reno, OK
Posts: 1,930
Re: Stable Powder

I'm not sure about the IMR but the Win is very temp sensitive. Accuracy is not directly effected but velocity on pressure are and these will in turn effect the accuracy.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-30-2005, 09:46 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: on the rifle range in Utah
Posts: 2,723
Re: Stable Powder

Sorry to say this but want you want does not exist.
Since velocity is a direct result of pressure, any magical coating or process of manufacturing that would reduce pressure on a 90 degree day would also reduce pressure on a freezing day thus giving you velocity reductions from faster to slower. In essence, how can a powder change it's burn rate or desired pressure(all by itself) while inside the bottle while maintaining a specific wanted velocity when the temp has now dropped 58 degrees?

Getting back to velo being a result of pressure, there are many many things that influence pressure. To name two that are relevant here are ambient air temps, and ambient temperature of the steel used in the action and barrel. As the temperature of your steel climbs from sunlight, air temp, or residual heat from previous shooting, the ability of it to increase pressure also increases. <font color="blue"> No powder available to citizens of this country can change this simple fact. </font>

Ever notice while chronographing that if you let a cartridge sit in a chamber (that has already been heated up from previous shooting) for several minutes that normally shoots standard deviations in the single digits, that it will spike up in velocity? THis is a direct result of higher temperature barrel steel causing internal pressures to rise. If your barrel goes from stone cold freezing to too hot to touch, it may have had the outside temperature raise 100 degrees or more. So when the ambient air temp changes your barrel steel temp from 32 to 90, it also changes the internal pressure proportionately which in turn increases your velocity!

All the magical coatings and fairy dust in the world cannot do a thing to change this to a degree that would make enough difference to us.

Only in the world of marketing and advertising developers does this basic principle of internal ballistics not exist.

Or in other words: WHen using Hodgdon, IMR, VV, Win, Ramshot, ALliant, Accurate, or any of the others, <font color="red"> you must find a suitable load and alter it slightly with the changing seasons. </font>
Some change more, some change less based on their composition and exposed surface area, but the bottom line is that they ALL change.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this might save you from spending money on miracle gimmicks and chasing your tail. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
__________________
Find it
Range it
Click it
Pull it
Dump it

If it's not far, it's boring.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-01-2005, 12:09 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
Posts: 7,993
Re: Stable Powder

GG,

Is the pressure/velocity change due to chamber/bbl temp. or the increased powder temp. due to time spent in the chamber of a hot chamber/bbl?

I 'think' I know the answer, but since hanging out around here, what seems obvious to me has been way wrong. This may be one of those things.

BTW, w/RL-22 from summer to winter with the same load I loose ~130 FPS. Ouch! Also a bit skeer'd to have a winter and summer load laying around. Some times I space things.[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Tnx
__________________
I may be the slowest guy on the mountain . . . . but . . . . I'm on the mountain!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-01-2005, 09:53 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: on the rifle range in Utah
Posts: 2,723
Re: Stable Powder

Internal pressures rise from both the steel being warmer and the powder/brass/primer being warmer. Remember what happens to ammo left in a ammo box in the sun? Why does it shoot faster and have more pressure?

The same thing happens to ammo that is heated up in a chamber. In full automatic rifles under sustained fire, a round can actually cook off (fire without the trigger being pulled) from internal chamber heat.

So basicly, it doesn't matter how the round got heated, it will have the same effect on pressure and there ain't a dang thing the powder can do about it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]


My 300 winnie likes RL-22 also and there is 100-175 fps difference between my summer load and my winter load depending on the lot! Crazy. That is why I never load huge quantities of ammo at one time unless I am positive what time of the year I'm going to be shooting them in.

Generally, I will go one grain low and one grain high of the normal load and chrono the stuff a few days before the hunt or shooting session just to stay on top of things. Pain in the rear I know but that is what you have to do to stay on the cutting edge of performance.
__________________
Find it
Range it
Click it
Pull it
Dump it

If it's not far, it's boring.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: Stable Powder
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
More stable shooting bench or mat? WEATHERBY460 Long Range Hunting & Shooting 5 05-24-2012 06:18 AM
Whats the most stable transonic bullet? Topshot Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 36 11-28-2011 11:21 PM
Stable powders Tikkamike Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 16 07-24-2011 08:16 AM
Temp Stable liltank Long Range Hunting & Shooting 16 12-04-2010 11:30 AM
Suggestions for a lightweight, stable tripod? esshup Long Range Scopes and Other Optics 9 09-19-2009 08:40 PM

Current Poll
How Many Different Cartridges Do You Reload For?
ZERO, all factory ammo - 8.07%
328 Votes
1 - 2.85%
116 Votes
2 or 3 - 14.56%
592 Votes
4 or 5 - 20.49%
833 Votes
6 or 7 - 14.56%
592 Votes
8 or 9 - 8.88%
361 Votes
10 or more - 30.60%
1,244 Vote
Total Votes: 4,066
You may not vote on this poll.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC