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Some pics of groups, and some questions...results from this morning...

 
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Old 04-01-2006, 04:25 PM
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Some pics of groups, and some questions...results from this morning...

Ok, I just back from a morning of shooting. It was a little windy/gusty, but not to bad. My questions are about what I can expect from my factory rig as far as group size goes. Some info on me, I'm pretty new to reloading, so I'm still working on that stuff, but quickly getting the hang of it.

First pic is from my .223, it's out of my AR-15 at 100yds...5 shots, the low shot is my first shot of the day. the next 4 are in the same hole.

Ok, here are the groups in question... these are all out of my factory Rem 700CDL 300rum, i bedded it, trigger job, and muzzle brake, thats it, I'm starting to wanna send it in to get worked over by kirby or shawn... But, I thought I would check here first. Take a look at these pics and tell me what you think as far as groups go..

These are all shot at 210yds. this ones spread is 1.9"

here's another...

here is another at 1.9" across

this one is 4 shots with the flyer down and right, these are the 200AB's. it was 1.6" until the flyer which opened it up to 3.8"..

this one is 1.6"

Couple questions....
1. What can I acctually expect from my factory stick? Should I keep working on the groups?

2. what the heck causes flyers [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]???? My hold was the same, and I'm not flinching at all(thanks to the brake, although my ears hurt..) I know this question has a million differant answers, but is there anything obvious I'm missing?

I'm not super happy with these groups, but I think I may have unrealistic expectations.

thanks for your help...This is fun though, I'm just getting going on this long range shooting stuff, and so far it's been a blast!
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Old 04-01-2006, 06:38 PM
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Re: Some pics of groups, and some questions...results from this mornin

I assume it's a sporter. Those groups, as near as I can figure with an ocassional flyer, are around MOA. What more do you want from a sporter. I guess that with a bit of tuning one might be able to squeeze another 1/4" or so out of it. That's a 2" smaller group at 800yds or one inch smaller from the center of your groups. If you are that good [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]YOU THE MAN [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img], CAPT DAVID
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Old 04-01-2006, 08:45 PM
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Re: Some pics of groups, and some questions...results from this morning...

Well from the looks of it, your low on powder charges. Were the groups shot at 100 or 200 yards?? My particular 300 RUM shoots good with more powder. My 200g ab and smk loads shot very well at 92g h-1000 or 95g retumbo. My 220g loads shot well at 88g h-1000. try bumping up your powder charge and see what they do. Your rifle should be more accurate then what I see. All I have is a rem LSS and its got .5 groups at 100, and 2" at 500, and 4" at 800 with nothign more then trigger job and bedding. I would say try a couple more loads before sending it off.
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Old 04-01-2006, 09:42 PM
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Re: Some pics of groups, and some questions...results from this mornin

they were shot at 200yds. Thats what I was thinking..I have shot 92.2gr of retumbo behind a 220smk, and that was too hot! only shot one round, sticky bolt, extracter mark, etc...

I'll try the 220's with a little more umph behind them, and see what happens. I really need to get a chrono!

I would like a little more accuracy, I hope I'm not expecting to much, and hope I get a shooter like yours rem..
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Old 04-01-2006, 10:08 PM
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Re: Some pics of groups, and some questions...results from this mornin

Without the flyers it seems to be hanging under MOA which isn't shabby at all. To refine it more may take some work which I suggest that you could do most of yourself. If you send it off, its been my recent experience, that you will have no idea of when it will get back. Right now I'm without anything to shoot so all I can do is talk about it.[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Some of these thing include:

Look at the fired cases. Is the ring just ahead of the case head even all the way around the case? In other words is the chamber concentric? Probably is but its easy to check.

Are the cases trimmed to uniform length? and chamfered inside and out?

Are cases about the same weight? Usually don't make that much different but sometimes it does.

Look at loaded cartridges:
Do you spin them to check for concentricity? I'm comfortable with +/- 0.001 but things still shoot good with much worse than that most times. Even as much as 0.01 or worse.

If you can see the wobble when they are rolled on a flat table top there may be some concern.

You said that you bedded it but I'd check that too. If no fancy measurement equipment just hold the rife vertical, resting the butt on the bench, alternately tighten and loosen the front and rear mounting screws. You shouldn't feel much barrel movement. Zero movement is the best but a little may be ok.

Ensure the stock screws are not touching the sides of the holes. Also look at the recoil lug channel. The lug shouldn't be touching at the front and some don't like it touching on the sides either.

Also, barrel break-in is important. If a proper break-in procedure was used, good. If not, it may take a while for it to get as accurate as its going to.

I may be way overboard here as I don't know your experience. (Please take no offense.) If you've done all of these things then great. Besides I'm thinking that its shooting pretty well, though it is most likely that it can shoot better.
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Old 04-01-2006, 10:26 PM
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Re: Some pics of groups, and some questions...results from this morning...

I have an lss in a 300rum and it shoots right around .7-.8 of an inch at 100yards. I have a 243 in a sporter barrel and it shoots sub .5 inch at 100 yards. Just depends
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Old 04-01-2006, 10:29 PM
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Re: Some pics of groups, and some questions...results from this mornin

Ok, for 200 yard groups, like everyone else has said, its shooting about MOA. Which is good for a factory sporter. I expect my factory sporters to shoot at least 3/4 moa before I consider them a 500-600 yard rifle. I would say just do a little bit more load deveolopment and you should get 3/4 MOA. Now my experiences with factory rifles inquire that you should expect a flyer pretty regularly. Shoot 4 shot groups and if 3 of the 4 are good, then I would say you got a good load. How many animals are going to stand around for 4 shots anyways??? You should get the job done on the 1st, if not the 2nd, and most definately the 3rd shot anyways. Its been my experience that flyers with factory barrels happen quite often, theres not much you can do about it. Your rifle should be capable of 3/4 moa though with a tuned load. My guess is you just haven't found the sweet spot yet for your loads.
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