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Some good news

 
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  #1  
Old 12-09-2009, 06:32 PM
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Some good news

Talked to Ryan today from Barnes and it looks like by January, they will have a 200 gr TTSX in the .308 cal. Yes, it will be boattail and not flat based. The bc will be .540

I also exchanged several emails with im regarding his/Barnes thoughts on the Berger Bullets. He kept it very professional but did give me some very good info and insight comparing the two bullets. If anyone is interested, I can PM them the email.
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2009, 08:50 PM
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Re: Some good news

PM me the e-mail for curiosities sake. Guess it depends on the cost etc. A similiar Berger would have a 0.60 BC. Where in NM are you at?
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  #3  
Old 12-09-2009, 10:52 PM
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Re: Some good news

I would like to read the info you have on this. Can you PM?
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  #4  
Old 12-09-2009, 11:03 PM
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Re: Some good news

All Pm's sent
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  #5  
Old 12-09-2009, 11:32 PM
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Re: Some good news

Barnes Tech Support is second to none in my opinion. Any problem I have had they have answered right away and explained it to me in great detail. On top of that, their product is one of the best.

Basically, I had questions about their bc's and how they come up with them compared to their competition. There are many ways to skin that cat, but think they do it very well and do not OVERSTATE the bc's like other bullet manufacturers. We then talked about their product vs Bergers for hunting applications. It's funny how we can fall into companies marketing hype and thats what I felt like I was doing with the Bergers. Now I know a lot of people love to use Bergers, it is just my opinion on how a hunting bullet should be designed and how it should perfrom on game. Barnes TTSX bullet covers this and Bergers are an excellent target shooting bullet. However, hunting passed 600 yards with the Barnes takes more work than using the Bergers, but then again you would be using a bullet designed for paper and not hide, flesh, and bone. Again, just my opinion, what do I know

Personally, I do not feel comfortable hunting passed 600-650 yards because I do not have the experience nor the talent to do so and not afraid to admit that fact.

On bullet performance, it makes sense to me that a bullet should retain as much of its original weight as possible and not fragment, loosing 50%-60% of original weight. The flip side to having a bullet perfrom like the Barnes, that retains its weight very well, is that in theory, you can get a pass through shot and not take down game quickly. My experience with the TTSX has been on three black bear, two elk, 3 mule deer, and a mt lion and in each instance the bullet stayed completly in tack, mushroomed and the devastation inside the animal was amazing. On one of the bears I took last year, one of the petals was pushed down flat from hitting bone.

So I guess with all this rambling, if you plan on hunting within 600 yards, Barnes would be the top of my list. If you hunt passed those ranges, Bergers should be considered along with Barnes.
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  #6  
Old 12-10-2009, 12:34 AM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
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Re: Some good news

Tayhot,

I agree with you on desired bullet performce for the most part, depending on the game and hunting situation. There is something to be said for colateral damage caused by bullets partialy framenting. For larger and more dangerous game, a bullet that holds together and penetrates farther is definitely preferred. That being said, pretty much all the bullets available for hunting will get the job done 95% of the time on all NA big game, except maybe the big bears of Alaska. They do it in different ways. I prefer controlled expansion, and some bullet mass loss is acceptable, because it will cause colateral damage.

In the monometals, the GS bullets are superior, but thay are also spendy. I like the E-Tips better than the Barnes because they have a better BC, they are made from a tougher guilded metal and their poly tips seem to be more rugged. I also like their expansion characteristics better.

On the subject of BC and honesty, IMO, Berger leads the pack. If you have been reading any of these other threads, you will see that there are numerous drag models used to measure BC. The G1 is a very poor model to measure boattail low drag bullets. However, Barnes and the other bullet manufactureres refuse, let me repeat... refuse to convert to the more appropriate models because the G1 is a "bigger" number and sells better. So I would suggest that you go back and chat with John or Tye and ask them why they are using the G1 BCs and not the G7 or G5?

Also, after reading the article Barnes put out to discredit the Berger bullets, my respect for Barnes all but vanished. I think it was a low handed marketing attack filled with a lot of misinformation. To suggest that any Barnes bullet is suitable for hunting use out to 1000 yds in the cartridges they mentioned is absurd. Unfortunately, most of the hunting public is ignorant of the technical facts relating to LR shooting and hunting and will buy into that BS.

Finally, I have to really scratch my head when they publish that Barnes bullets out performed Bergers in accuracy tests. Just who performed those tests? I guess the BR shooters just dont get it??? Why are they using Bergers and SMKs in BR and F-class competition and not the Barnes bullets that shoot so much better? It just escapes me.

Again, I say this as a person who prefers a controled expansion bullet. I would only use Bergers as a last resort because I just dont care for explosive type bullets.

So what bullet company is really trying to get honest figures out to the public and what company is trying to sell their product?

Mark
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  #7  
Old 12-10-2009, 09:16 AM
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Re: Some good news

Very good post Mark.

There is a lot of info to share and that was my intent with my original post. To share my htoughts and hear from others.

If someone is hunting to 600 yards, who cares what the bc is? So what if Barnes bc's arent as good as Bergers? Passed 600 yards knowing the G7 may be valueable, but 0-600 yards is not a big deal. My opinion. It is also my opinion, that Barnes bullets perfrom better.

So again, hunting out to 600 yards, are we all falling into the marketing hype of the bullet companies worrying who has the higher bc? Perfromance would seem more desireable. Does it matter or not if they supply a G7 bc?
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