Originally Posted by Ridge Runner
"... cat, I started turning necks because I couldn't begin to put a bullet in a fired case, never had one like this before so assumed I had a tight neck, and blowing primers with the fire form load I was given just didn't make sense.
Back when I was a Grasshopper (the days of the brand new 30-40 Krag ;) ), cases from a new factory rifle I bought, gave me necks that a bullet wouldn't drop into - I had to push them in.
I was told by the local Guru that the chamber was no good, and he offered to buy it from me, "So he could save me from hurting myself" :(
I had "that feeling", and didn't sell it. Later, when I became a gunsmith, I learned that "minimum necks" give that effect. If the loaded neck is 0.300", and the chamber neck is 0.302" - 0.303", the neck will not expand enough to take a set, and it will spring back to where it was.
Later, when I was shooting bench, I built the rifles so there was 1 to 2 thou clearance, and never needed to size the necks (well, almost NEVER)... I would fire the case, re-prime it, put powder in it, and seat the bullet, and fire it again.
Lotsa bench shooters did that when I was active in it.
I now have almost 10 rifles that "suffer" this neck relationship. Four are factory.
One is a Ruger #1 in .218 Bee that I have had for a number of years, and I have never sized a case for it. There is 0.001" clearance, and it is "right out of the box". I just shoot it, re-prime it, load it and shoot it.
When we order a "tight neck", we are deliberately setting this situation up - our loaded necks are a few thou less then the chamber neck.
When it happens with a new factory rifle, or a custom that was cut with a "normal" chamber, we are surprised.
I would love ALL of my rifles to have this problem.
I think when you had blown primers, you went to the necks as a problem (understandable), and skipped looking at the loads.
I think you have a great chamber, that will give you long case life. I think your loads are a "bit" heavy.
My 264WM has a larger case, and is a "bigger" round, and those loads would heavy for my rifle.
I think the guy that did the build, didn't have good load data.
I did find out that ff'ing with COW left my necks .001-.0015 thicker than using a bullet.
Thant's funny - where do you think the metal came from??? Were these from the same lot of brass?
OK, my necks are uneven from using FL die to neck down, could this be causing the problem using unturned necks? looking into getting a bushing die in 270 and the appropriate bushings? RR
I don't think so... you have the clearance so there can be no problem there.
I don't have a Redding catalog nearby, do they make bushing "S" dies for the 6.5 Gibbs?
I haven't been able to find reliable 6.5 Gibbs load data on the net, but there is a lot of 6.5-06 data. Might be a good idea to use max 6.5-06 as starting point, and work up with the assumption that you have no load data (cuz I don't think yours is reliable), and work up like any other cartridge... and watch for the usual suspects.
The 6.5 Gibbs has about 74.3 gr of water (to mouth) capacity, the 264WM has about 79.2 gr of water... the 264WM is almost 7% greater than the 6.5 Gibbs, so that might put things in perspective for you.
I ran some loads from "Load from a disk" for you.
140 gr - RL-22
Max 57.3grs, 3150fps, @ 55kpsia.
So your instructions to: His next instruction was load with 62 gr of re-22 and a 140 (first round blew primer broke extractor) so I turned the necks but still lost the pockets after 1 firing. cut the charge back to 60 gr using CM/TP fireformed new win cases, lost the pockets after 1 firing.
... were seriously over loaded - 62 gr of RL-22 will give you somewhere in the area of 70Kpsia, a VERY BAD THING! :( :(
I can understand why your extractor went south, and you are beating the crap out of the cases.
The load "Labs" told you was just about at 50Kpsia, and 3000fps, with the 140 bullet.
I don't think you can expect more than ~3,100-3,150 fps with this case and a 140 gr bullet, and at that velocity, you will be running around 60Kpsia.
Considering the PIA it is to make the cases, if it were mine, I would keep velocities around 3,000-3,050, and enjoy the case life.
I hope this helps a bit.
If you would like me to generate some load data for you, PM me the powder, bullet weight and length, and I'll run it for you.
I think your builder was smoking a little wackie weed when he was telling you the load data - it is WAY off, and DANGEROUS!!.
Keep us advised - I have been hearing about this project for so long, I feel like it's like my stepchild ;)