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"scoring?" on 308 brass after sizing?

 
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  #1  
Old 10-30-2013, 07:54 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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"scoring?" on 308 brass after sizing?

I was reading here on the net that some people use a FL die as a partial neck sizing die. This is a new caliber for me to reload and have only did a little bit of .223 before this. So I thought this might increase case life, be easier on the brass, etc.

It is just a RCBS FL die, I'm using Lapua brass. I put a small amount of black sharpie on the shoulder to determine if the case was contacting the die. Then ran the case up into the die with no lube, backed it off and it looked "scored" after it came out with a distinct line where it stopped sizing. I tried with a small amount of lube and it was a little better, but not much. This has never happened with my .223 RCBS die.

This didn't happen with my Federal brass, but then again it's not known for being a quality brass that the Lapua is...

If anyone has a tip or idea... it would be much appreciated!


thanks,
James
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  #2  
Old 10-30-2013, 08:08 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fort Morgan, Colorado
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Re: "scoring?" on 308 brass after sizing?

I have tried partial neck sizing with a FL sizing die and I couldn't get the neck to size much at all before the shoulder was starting to be set back. First thing though, are you sure you need to neck size only. The only time that I found I really needed to neck size was with a custom built on an FN Mauser action and shilen barrel chambered in 264Win. That chamber was so oversized that I had to neck size to get any case life. IMO, if you want to neck size go buy a neck sizer die and do it right. Also with the NSD you don't need to lube at all.
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Dennis
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  #3  
Old 10-31-2013, 05:54 AM
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Location: Tucson Az
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Re: "scoring?" on 308 brass after sizing?

I believe your scoring was due to your: " Then ran the case up into the die with no lube"
It doesn't take much to begin scraping off a few bits of brass which sticks to the sizer die walls. Once this happens the scoring will be on every case till you clean up the inside of the die.

Putting a dry case into the die is a mistake. Subsequent cases sent into die will remove all remants of lube and then you will have a case stuck in the die! It happened to me when I first started loading and you can believe I paid attention to details to prevent that from happening again! It is a real pain to remove.

Proper sizing with the die you are using IS partial FL sizing. It will extend brass life and is the proper way to resize brass.

I always wondered why RCBS would have the following instructions for their FL dies:

"Screw the sizer die into the press until the die touches the shell holder when the shell holder is brought up to the top of the press stroke. Be sure all play is removed from the press leverage system. To do this, adjust the die as above, lower the shell holder and set the die 1/8 to turn further down so that the press cams over center. Set the large lock nut and you are ready to size. "

This is very wrong unless you have a very tight headspaced chamber. To do so will work the brass and will cause excessive stretching of the case requiring more frequent trimming and more importantly eventually cause case head separation.

The proper approach is to size enough so the shoulder/body taper is slightly reduced to fit the chamber with little or no bolt closure resistance. This is what we reloaders call partial full length sizing. You can size less so there is some resistance it is up to you. Personally I prefer no resistance especially with a hunting rifle.

If you want to neck size only, get a good bushing die that only sizes the necks. You can get away with no body/shoulder sizing for a few firings then the brass will get too tight and you will have to partial resize the brass anyway.

Unfortunately not every instructional section in a Loading manual or instructions that come with the dies explain how to use the dies properly. Hope this helps. I like to help beginners as do others that post here. If you have more detailed questions all you have to do is ask.

Ross
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  #4  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:48 AM
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Join Date: May 2012
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Re: "scoring?" on 308 brass after sizing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZShooter View Post
I believe your scoring was due to your: " Then ran the case up into the die with no lube"
It doesn't take much to begin scraping off a few bits of brass which sticks to the sizer die walls. Once this happens the scoring will be on every case till you clean up the inside of the die.

Putting a dry case into the die is a mistake. Subsequent cases sent into die will remove all remants of lube and then you will have a case stuck in the die! It happened to me when I first started loading and you can believe I paid attention to details to prevent that from happening again! It is a real pain to remove.

Proper sizing with the die you are using IS partial FL sizing. It will extend brass life and is the proper way to resize brass.

I always wondered why RCBS would have the following instructions for their FL dies:

"Screw the sizer die into the press until the die touches the shell holder when the shell holder is brought up to the top of the press stroke. Be sure all play is removed from the press leverage system. To do this, adjust the die as above, lower the shell holder and set the die 1/8 to turn further down so that the press cams over center. Set the large lock nut and you are ready to size. "

This is very wrong unless you have a very tight headspaced chamber. To do so will work the brass and will cause excessive stretching of the case requiring more frequent trimming and more importantly eventually cause case head separation.

The proper approach is to size enough so the shoulder/body taper is slightly reduced to fit the chamber with little or no bolt closure resistance. This is what we reloaders call partial full length sizing. You can size less so there is some resistance it is up to you. Personally I prefer no resistance especially with a hunting rifle.

If you want to neck size only, get a good bushing die that only sizes the necks. You can get away with no body/shoulder sizing for a few firings then the brass will get too tight and you will have to partial resize the brass anyway.

Unfortunately not every instructional section in a Loading manual or instructions that come with the dies explain how to use the dies properly. Hope this helps. I like to help beginners as do others that post here. If you have more detailed questions all you have to do is ask.

Ross
+1 on AZ's comments

Set up your dies for a couple of thousandths shoulder bump and don't bother with neck sizing only for a hunting rifle- varminters can neck size a couple of cycles then fl when the brass gets hard to chamber. Use good lube- I shy away from sprays and use lube/pad (rcbs).
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:58 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tucson Az
Posts: 1,232
Re: "scoring?" on 308 brass after sizing?

Thanks for the +1 Lefty.

I tend to write a bit on the lengthy side and hope it is useful. I can't help but try and get every detail. I am a retired vocational teacher and details were my life as an automotive teacher. My wife says I can't see the forest for the trees. I say I see the forest, the trees, the bark, the cambium layer, the sapwood, heartwood etc.....
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  #6  
Old 10-31-2013, 12:38 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 19
Re: "scoring?" on 308 brass after sizing?

Thank you for the info guys! The detail was really good. I think the die did get brass in it as the scoring diminished as I did more shells (with lube of course!)

So to measure shoulder bump back does a person use a caliper, micrometer, or??? And should I only do that every 2-4 firing and neck size the rest of the time until there gets to be a small amount of pressure on the bolt handle or partial FL resize every time?
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  #7  
Old 10-31-2013, 02:10 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,078
Re: "scoring?" on 308 brass after sizing?

I bump shoulders 2thou every time I reload, as I don't like the idea of doing something different every "x" time I reload. Also, as per AZ's point it gives you some tolerance on a hunting rifle (you go to jack round #2 in for a follow up shot and the bolt won't close = major bummer).

As far as measuring bump, research and buy a headspace gauge kit. Typically they clamp on to your caliper and give you a reading to a datum point on the shoulder. I have a Hornady kit, it isn't NASA type equipment but it gets the job done. I think Sinclair makes one too.

Measure a fired case, and adjust your die down SLOWLY until you get a measurement 2 thou below that. Then you are set up. Just that easy.
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