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Runout problems!

 
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  #1  
Old 05-08-2009, 03:49 AM
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Runout problems!

Hi guys,
I am having serious problems with runout in my 222Rem. I have RCBS neck and F/L dies, but the problem doesn't change from using one or the other.
So, I am assuming it's the seater die.
Do you think the threads may be off centre or damaged?
Or could it be the seater stem itself being eccentric?
If anyone has another idea feel free to speak up.
I am at my wits end over this, it is plainly visible to the naked eye when the rounds are rolled on a flat surface.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Cheers.
MagnumManiac.
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  #2  
Old 05-08-2009, 05:09 AM
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Re: Runout problems!

Have you checked runout during each stage of your reloading to know for sure it is happening at the seater stem. If so, are you using Berger bullets, and are the point of the bullet bottoming out in the stem while seating instead of the stem pushing on the ogive of the bullet to seat it. I had to change stems on my Forester dies because of that problem causing runout.
Just a thought.
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  #3  
Old 05-08-2009, 05:55 AM
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Re: Runout problems!

Quote:
Originally Posted by trueblue View Post
Have you checked runout during each stage of your reloading to know for sure it is happening at the seater stem. If so, are you using Berger bullets, and are the point of the bullet bottoming out in the stem while seating instead of the stem pushing on the ogive of the bullet to seat it. I had to change stems on my Forester dies because of that problem causing runout.
Just a thought.
Thanks for the quick reply.
Yes, I have checked at each stage with both F/L and Neck die, not apparent during those steps.
I have checked to see if the bullet is bottoming in the stem, it isn't.
I have run the stem in a drill press, it appears straight and true.
The only thing I can think of is the threads are eccentric or the die is pissed.
Still unable to find the cause.
Cheers.
MagnumManiac.
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  #4  
Old 05-08-2009, 06:59 AM
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Re: Runout problems!

Questions:
How & where are you measuring the runout?
How much is there off the necks? Off the seated bullet noses?
Did you measure thickness variance in this brass?
Was there a chamfer turned at the mouths?
Has the brass been fireformed?
How many times has it been reloaded?
Has it been annealed?
How much tension is left with your neck sizing?
What kind of bullets are you seating?
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  #5  
Old 05-08-2009, 08:01 AM
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Re: Runout problems!

And how much bullet grip are you seating into?
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  #6  
Old 05-08-2009, 06:46 PM
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Re: Runout problems!

Mikecr,
I am measuring on the necks first before bullet seating, they are running less than .001" of runout.
Once the bullets are seated, the necks are running .005" or more and the bullets are running above .005" measured on the nose.
I have not measured neck thickness.
I have not turned the necks.
This is happening with fired or unfired brass.
The neck tension is set at .0015" under bullet diameter.
The brass has not been annealed. The case mouths have been chamfered.
I am using Nosler 'SHOTS', 50gr SP.
I know these are not the best bullets going, but they are good for the intended purpose of the rifle; long range shooting of foxes under a light.

Woods,
I am seating the bullets .181" into the neck.

Cheers.
MagnumManiac.
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  #7  
Old 05-08-2009, 08:11 PM
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Re: Runout problems!

Thinkin out loud here,,

A seating die doesn't move necks around like a sizing die. So bullet seating isn't going to increase runout in the necks -unless thickness variance in the neck is pushed outward by the bullet.

I get around this with a few tools:
I cull by thickness variance with this
Micrometers - Sinclair/Starret Case Neck Micrometer
I push accepted variance outward after sizing/prior to seating, using a mandrel
Turning & Expander Mandrels - Std 7/8-14 Expander Die
I measure runout with this
Concentricity Gauges - Sinclair Concentricity Gage with dial indicator

Now let's say you have a possible die issue,,
You could float a few cases while seating as a test of die center.
Cover the ram with a plate in place of the shell holder, seat bullets allowing the cases to self-center (free of any shell holder -like a hand die), and see if things change.
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