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RRAs 9" twist doesn't shoot 65gr GK well?

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Unread 04-02-2009, 09:34 PM
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RRAs 9" twist doesn't shoot 65gr GK well?

20" bbl RRAs coyote upper 9"twist doesn't seem to shoot better then 1.5 MOA at 100 yds with AA2520 25.5grs Avg MV was 3,000. This rifle groups 55gr V-max in 3/4MOA with Bench Mark at 3175 Avg. On Box of Bullets Sierra recommends twist rates between 7-10" . What's the problem? I want a 300 yd coyote AR-15
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Unread 04-04-2009, 02:32 PM
436 436 is offline
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Re: RRAs 9" twist doesn't shoot 65gr GK well?

You might try this load it sure works for me; Win case, CCI #41 primer, 65gr GK Sierra, Hodg; H-335 {25.0grs.} Vel’s run’s 2950 fps {tracking with M855} from my M4 clone 16.5 barrel and a little faster in the 20” AR15 with 1-9 twist barrel. Both rifles are very accurate with this load’…, it’s the only one I use in my gas guns now. It’s very hard on Yotes; waaaaay out there.

Good luck.

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Unread 04-04-2009, 07:09 PM
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Re: RRAs 9" twist doesn't shoot 65gr GK well?

436 How well ? What size groups? Today I was shooting 25.6grs of H335 behind this bullet. My groups were about 1.5+ MV of 3,025. Was I pushing it too hard? Best groups were IMR 4064 24.9 grs with a MV of about 2,850. Tighter group about 1.25 MOA IMR powder was the closest in burn rates to Varget that I can't seem to get....... Bought some Federal Ball ammo 193 55gr FMJBT those loads were HOT 3300 fps and produced 1"MOA I pulled the bullets on 3 of those bad boys. 27.8grs of Ball powder. This ball powder looked like either BL-c2 or H335 ,or maybe it was AA2520 or WW760 . ????? Dang I don't have a clue but shooting them you could feel how the action slammed harder back. Plus they shot well. So what is the moral of this story? Performace of that Federal Ball ammo was like throwing a monkey wrench into the mix?
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Unread 04-04-2009, 11:09 PM
436 436 is offline
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Re: RRAs 9" twist doesn't shoot 65gr GK well?

Iron Worker
My groups ran on average 1” or less depending on the weapon and the optics I had on it at the time.
The AR15 A2 clone with a 20” 1-9 twist hovered around 1.0” for 3 shot group, using my ACOG .35x35
My Colt M4 clone with a 16.5” 1-7 twist holds a nice sub moa around 0.75” on it I have a Leupold Prismatic.
The third rifle I used 65gr Sierra's in was my custom .223 Rem M700 LR with a 30” 1-8 twist Polygonal. I have a Leupold Mk4 M1 16X {This rifle was rechambered from .223 Rem to .222 Mag; just for fun, it shot fine as a .223 Rem, but I wanted to see if I could pick up a little more vel’s while using 80gr Mk’s for 1k matches.} When it was a .223 Rem I used the 65gr. Gk’s in it with the same H335 load and turned in many sub 0.50” five shot groups.

Here’s a scale burn rate; that might help you with M193 Federal and Military powders

1 R-1, Norma
2 N100, Accurate
3 N310, Vihtavuori
4 Bullseye, Alliant
5 BA 10, Vectan
6 WST, Winchester
7 P805, RWS
8 N312, Vihtavuori
9 W-230, Winchester
10 Solo 1000, Accurate
11 Clays, Hodgdon
12 Red Dot, Alliant
13 N318, Vihtavuori
14 P 801, RWS
15 Hi-Skor 700X, IMR
16 AS, Vectan
17 N320, Vihtavuori
18 TR 100, Hodgdon
19 Green Dot, Alliant
20 International, Hodgdon
21 No. 2, Accurate
22 N321, Vihtavuori
23 AS25, Vectan
24 N324, Vihtavuori
25 HP-38, Hodgdon
26 w-230P, Winchester
27 W-231, Winchester
28 N325, Vihtavuori
29 W-452, Winchester
30 N330, Vihtavuori
31 HS-5, Hodgdon
32 PB, IMR
33 N331, Vihtavuori
34 No. 5, Accurate
35 BA 9, Vectan
36 Unique, Alliant
37 P 803, RWS
38 A1, Vectan
39 W-473, Winchester
40 P 804, RWS
41 SR-4756, IMR
42 WSL, Winchester
43 Power Pistol, Alliant
44 Universal, Hodgdon
45 SR-7625, IMR
46 W-473AA, Winchester
47 A0, Vectan
48 Herco, Alliant
49 SP 8, Vectan
50 N340, Vihtavuori
51 WSF, Winchester
52 AL5, Alcan
53 W-500HS, Winchester
54 HS-5, Hodgdon
55 AL7, Alcan
56 W-540MS, Winchester
57 HS-6, Hodgdon
58 W-540, Winchester
59 3N37, Vihtavuori
60 WAP, Winchester
61 AL8, Alcan
62 Hi-Skor 800-X, IMR
63 N350, Vihtavuori
64 HS-7, Hodgdon
65 R-23, Norma
66 N-1020, Norma
67 H-240, Hodgdon
68 W-571, Winchester
69 SP 2, Vectan
70 W-630, Winchester
71 W-630P, Winchester
72 N105SM, Vihtavuori
73 No. 7, Accurate
74 Blue Dot, Alliant
75 No. 9, Accurate
76 BA 6, Vectan
77 P 806, RWS
78 2400, Alliant
79 N110, Vihtavuori
80 R-123, Norma
81 30 Carb, RWS
82 SP 3, Vectan
83 H-110, Hodgdon
84 W-296, Winchester
85 W-295HP, Winchester
86 SR-4759, IMR
87 N120, Vihtavuori
88 XMP-5744, Accurate
89 IMR-4227, IMR
90 N125, Vihtavuori
91 H-4227, Hodgdon
92 N130, Vihtavuori
93 TU 2000, Vectan
94 1680, Accurate
95 W-680, Winchester
96 R 901, RWS
97 N132, Vihtavuori
98 Hornet, Nobel
99 N-200, Norma
100 N133, Vihtavuori
101 Brigadier 4197- Scot
102 IMR-4198, IMR
103 H-4198, Hodgdon
104 XMR-2015, Accurate
105 2015BR- Accurate
106 Reloder 7, Alliant
107 HiVel 2, Hercules
108 N134, Vihtavuori
109 R 902, RWS
110 IMR-3031, IMR
111 Benchmark 1, Hodgdon
112 N-201, Norma
113 H-322, Hodgdon
114 IMR 8208
115 Benchmark 2, Hodgdon
116 TU 3000, Vectan
117 2230, Accurate
118 Brigadier 3032- Scot
119 IMR-4895
120 H-4895, Hodgdon
121 SP 10, Vectan
122 H-335, Hodgdon
123 R 903, RWS
124 WC 844
125 BL-C(2), Hodgdon
126 WC 846
127 SP 9, Vectan
128 2460, Accurate
129 SP 7, Vectan
130 W-748, Winchester
131 W-748BR, Winchester
132 Reloder 11, Hercules
133 Reloder 12, Alliant
134 N135, Vihtavuori
135 IMR-4064, IMR
136 Brigadier 4065- Scot
137 Varget, Hodgdon
138 2520, Accurate
139 N-202, Norma
140 XMR-4064, Accurate
141 TU 5000, Vectan
142 R 907, RWS
143 N-203, Norma
144 Neonite 12- Nobel
145 IMR-4320, IMR
146 H-375, Hodgdon
147 N540, Vihtavuori
148 N140, Vihtavuori
149 2700, Accurate
150 Reloder 15, Alliant
151 Reloder 21, Hercules
152 H-380, Hodgdon
153 N550, Vihtavuori
154 N150, Vihtavuori
155 WC 852 (fast) WC852 and WC852f are different burn rates. WC852f uses H380 data.
156 R 904, RWS
157 W-760, Winchester
158 W-760BR, Winchester
159 H-414, Hodgdon
160 H-205, Hodgdon
161 N160, Vihtavuori
162 N560, Vihtavuori
163 4350, Accurate
164 IMR-4350, IMR
165 H-4350, Hodgdon
166 TU 7000, Vectan
167 N-204, Norma
168 W-780BR, Winchester
169 Brigadier 4351- Scot
170 Reloder 19, Alliant
171 IMR-4831, IMR
172 N-205, Norma
173 WC 852 (slow) WC852 and WC852f are different burn rates. WC852 uses IMR 4831 data.
174 XMR-3100, Accurate
175 H-450, Hodgdon
176 H-4831, Hodgdon
177 SP 12, Vectan
178 W-785, Winchester
179 MRP, Norma
180 N165, Vihtavuori
181 R 905, RWS
182 H-831, Hodgdon
183 TU 8000, Vectan
184 Reloder 22, Alliant
185 H-570, Hodgdon
186 IMR-7828, IMR
187 8700- Accurate
188 WC 860
189 24N41, Vihtavuori
190 H-1000, Hodgdon
191 H-870, Hodgdon
192 H-5010, Hodgdon
193 SP 13, Vectan

Powder/Manufacturer Sierra’s Designation Also Known As, or may
Factory Designation 5th Edition Manual be listed elsewhere as:

Norma R1 Norma R1 R1
Vihtavuori N310 Viht N310
Hodgdon Titewad Titewad
Accurate Arms Nitro 100 AA-N-100 N100
Hercules/Alliant Bullseye Bullseye B’eye
Accurate Arms Solo 1000 Solo 1000
Hodgdon Titegroup Titegroup
Accurate Arms No. 2 AA-No.2 No.2, #2, AA #2
Alliant American Select Am. Select
Hercules/Alliant Red Dot Red Dot RDOT
Hodgdon Clays Clays
Vihtavuori N320 Viht N320 N320
Winchester Super Target WST Win WST
Ramshot Competition Competition
Hodgdon HP38 HP38 HP-38
Winchester 231 231 WW 231, W-W 231, Win 231
Ramshot Zip Zip
IMR Hi-Skor@ 700X 700X 700-X
Hercules/Alliant Green Dot Green Dot GDOT
Hodgdon International Clays Int’l Clays International
Vihtavuori N330 Viht N330 N330
Accurate Arms No. 5 AA-No.5 No. 5, #5, AA #5
Winchester Super Lite WSL WSL1, WSL8, Win WSL
Hercules/Alliant Unique Unique UNIQ
Hodgdon Universal Clays Univ. Clays H. Universal

(Universal Clays should not be confused with Hodgdon’s Clays, or International Clays. These three powders are different and should not be interchanged.)

Alliant Power Pistol Power Pistol
IMR SR 7625 SR 7625
Hodgdon HS-6 HS-6 HS6
Ramshot Silhouette Silhouette
Winchester Action Pistol WAP Win WAP
Vihtavuori N340 Viht N340 N340
Winchester 540 540 WW 540, W-W 540
Hercules/Alliant Herco Herco
Winchester Super Field WSF Win WSF
IMR SR 4756 SR 4756
Vihtavuori 3N37 Viht 3N37 3N37
IMR AHi-Skor@ 800X 800X 800-X
Accurate Arms No. 7 AA-No. 7 No.7, #7, AA #7
Hodgdon Longshot Longshot
Ramshot True Blue True Blue
Vihtavuori N350 Viht N350 N350
Vihtavuori 3N38 Viht 3N38 3N38
Hodgdon HS-7 HS-7 HS7
Hercules/Alliant Blue Dot Blue Dot BDOT
Vihtavouri N105 Super Magnum Viht N105 N105
Accurate Arms No. 9 AA-No.9 No.9, #9, AA #9
Ramshot Enforcer Enforcer
Hercules/Alliant 2400 2400
Vihtavuori N110 Viht N110 N110
Hodgdon Lil’Gun Lil’Gun
Norma R123 Norma R123 R123, R-123
Hodgdon H110 H110 H-110
Winchester 296 296 WW 296, W-W 296, Win 296
IMR SR 4759 SR 4759
Vihtavuori N120 Viht N120 N120
IMR 4227 IMR-4227
Accurate Arms XMR-5744 XMR-5744 5744, AA-5744
Hodgdon H4227 H4227
Vihtavuori N130 Viht N130 N130
Accurate Arms 1680 AA-1680 1680
Norma 200 Norma 200 Norma N-200, N200
Vihtavuori N133 Viht N133 N133
Hodgdon H4198 H4198
IMR 4198 IMR-4198
Accurate Arms XMR-2015 XMR-2015 AA-2015, AA-2015BR
Hercules/Alliant Reloder 7 RE-7 RE7, Re7, RL-7, RX7
IMR 3031 IMR-3031
Hodgdon Benchmark Benchmark
Norma 201 Norma 201 Norma N-201, 201, N201
Hodgdon H322 H322 H-322
Ramshot X-Terminator X-Terminator
Accurate Arms 2230 AA-2230 2230
Winchester 748 748 WW 748, W-W 748, Win 748
Hodgdon Ball C(2) BL-C(2) BL-C2
Accurate Arms 2460 AA-2460 2460
Hodgdon H335 H335 H-335
Ramshot TAC TAC
Hodgdon H4895 H4895 H-4895
Accurate Arms XMR-2495 XMR-2495 2495, 2495BR, #2495, AA-2495
Hercules/Alliant Reloder 12 RE-12 Re12, RL-12, RX12
IMR 4895 IMR-4895
Vihtavuori N135 Viht N135 N135
Hodgdon Varget VARGET
IMR 4064 IMR-4064
Accurate Arms XMR-4064 XMR-4064 AA-4064
Accurate Arms 2520 AA-2520 2520, #2520, AA-2520
IMR 4320 IMR-4320
Norma 202 Norma 202 Norma N202, N-202
Vihtavuori N140 Viht N140 N140
Vihtavuori N540 Viht N540 N540
Accurate Arms 2700 AA-2700 2700, #2700, AA2700
Ramshot BigGame BigGame
Hercules/Alliant Reloder 15 RE-15 Re15, RL-15, RX15
Hodgdon H380 H380 H-380
Winchester 760 760 WW 760, W-W 760, Win 760
Hodgdon H414 H414 H-414
Vihtavuori N150 Viht N150 N150
Vihtavuori N550 Viht N550 N550
Accurate Arms XMR-4350 XMR-4350 AA-4350
IMR 4350 IMR-4350 4350
Hodgdon H4350 H4350 H-4350
Hodgdon H4350 Extreme H4350 EXT
Norma 204 Norma 204 Norma N-204, N-204
Hercules/Alliant Reloder 19 RE-19 Re19, RL-19, RX19
Vihtavuori N160 Viht N160 N160
Vihtavuori N560 Viht N560 N560
IMR 4831 IMR-4831
Accurate Arms XMR-3100 XMR-3100 3100, AA-3100
Winchester Magnum Rifle WMR Win WMR
Hodgdon H4831SC H4831SC
Hodgdon H4831* H4831 H-4831, 4831*
Norma MRP MRP Norma MRP, Magnum Rifle Powder
Hodgdon H450 H450
Accurate Arms MagPro MagPro AA MagPro
Vihtavuori N165 Viht N165 N165
Hercules/Alliant Reloder 22 RE-22 Re22, RL-22, RX22
Winchester WXR WXR
IMR 7828 IMR 7828 7828
Accurate Arms 8700 AA-8700 8700
Hodgdon H1000 H1000 H-1000
Ramshot Magnum (formerly BigBoy) Magnum
Alliant Reloader 25 RE-25
Hodgdon Retumbo Retumbo
Hodgdon H870 H870 H-870
Vihtavuori N170 Viht N170 N170
Vihtavouri 24N41 Viht 24N41 24N41
Hodgdon 50 BMG 50 BMG
Vihtavuori 20N29 Viht 20N29 20N29

AL-8 This is the original Alcan AL-8 as was sold during the 1960's and '70s. A flake powder which can be also loaded using Hercules (Alliant) Blue Dot data (begin with starting loads). This is new powder.
IMR4475 Original application was U.S. 7.62mm NATO (.308) Ball M80. Was approved as a substitute for WC846. IMR4475 is an extruded powder which has a burning rate similar to IMR3031.
IMR4895 Original application is U.S. .30 Cal Ball M2, AP M2, Tracer M25, and Match M72. THE powder of choice for M1 Garands. An extruded powder which can be loaded using IMR4895 data. This final lot I have came from 1972 loaded Tracer M25 ammo.
WC680(n) Original application is for the 7.62x39mm "AK-47" round. This is a ball powder, which can be loaded using AA1680 data.
WC820 Orignal application is for the U.S. Cal. .30 Carbine Ball M1 round. This lot loads at 13.5gr with 110gr FMJ projectile. This is a ball powder which can be loaded using Accurate Arms #9 (AA#9) data.
WC820(n) Orignal application is for the U.S. Cal. .30 Carbine Ball M1 round. This lot loads at 14gr with 110gr FMJ projectile. This is a ball powder which can be loaded using Accurate Arms #9 (AA#9) data.
WC820(f) This is an unusual lot of WC820 that was rejected for use in .30 Carbine ammunition, due to the too fast burning rate. This is a ball powder which can be loaded using Hodgdon HS7 data or Win571 data.
WC820(f) lot #47321 is more like H110 than AA #9.
WC844 Original application is U.S. 5.56mm NATO Ball M193 (55gr) & M855 (62gr), plus Tracer M196 & M856. Typical 55gr load is 26gr, and 62gr load is 25gr. A ball powder which can be loaded using Hodgdon H335 data.
WC846 Original application is U.S. 7.62mm NATO Ball M80 and Tracer M62, typically loaded around 44-45 grains. This is a ball powder which can be loaded using Hodgdon BL-C(2) data.
WC850 Same as H-380. Assoc. w/ chamber ringing. Do not use loads w/ more than 10% air sapce.
WC852 Sold as H-414. Burning rate similar to WW760.
WW760BR Older version of WW760. Also sold as H-414.
WC852(s) lot #47287 is more like RL-19/H4831.
WC860 Original application is U.S. .50 Cal. BMG ammo, used for the Ball M33 and API M8 projectile. A ball powder which can be loaded using Hodgdon H870 or AA8700 data.
WC872(n) Original application is U.S. 20mm Vulcan ammo. A ball powder which can be loaded using Hodgdon H870 or AA8700 data. _________

Good Luck
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