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Redding neck sizing problem?

 
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  #15  
Old 04-30-2013, 11:17 AM
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Re: Redding neck sizing problem?

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Originally Posted by RTK View Post
You must have talked to a different person than I did. Not to be a prick but I am calling BS. I own a 300wm FL bushing die.

With the die I have removing the decap hardware makes no difference. The bushing bottoms out just above the shoulder on a ledge and does not touch any part of the decapping assembly.
I even lowered the die enough to slightly crush a case and it still didn't size the whole neck.......Either I got a bad die and /or the guy at redding has his head up his *****....but in my case there is NO way to size the whole neck.
Buy or barrow a die, take it appart and you will see
I've seen the same thing, there's just a bit about 0.010 or so (just guessing I never bothered to measure) that the die doesn't (won't/can't) touch.
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  #16  
Old 04-30-2013, 11:20 AM
RTK RTK is offline
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Re: Redding neck sizing problem?

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Originally Posted by Bart B View Post

Look really close at that picture, see the ledge where the bushing rests? Now look right below it, see that little portion of the neck below the bushing?
That does not get sized................. That is what I am going to machine

Don't need to hash it our with reeding they already told me and I can confirm it will not size the whole neck

The problem I have is that I reload TTSX (kalifornia BS zones) and they have those bands cut in the bullet, when I hit the perfect seating depth I'm only sitting on one band plus a tad, their ain't much bearing surface to begin with on 300 mag neck, and I feel one band+ isn't enough, I need the whole neck to catch all of the other band next to the shoulder.....

Maybe the neck sizing only die goes a little further, but the FL sure as hell doesn't

Last edited by RTK; 04-30-2013 at 12:48 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-30-2013, 03:52 PM
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Re: Redding neck sizing problem?

I've yet to see a bushing die that would size an entire neck. They have a land the bushing rests on, and this land area is not sized. It is of course possible to make a bushing die that does'nt rely on land resting.
There are custom bushing/bump dies with a shoulder built into the bushing, and these size the entire neck. I had one from Tubbs for a 6XC. My conclusion; There is nothing good in sizing necks down to the shoulder. It just brings donut into the mix and with this you can forget consistent tensions.

Normal bushings are not ID tapered, and would only make a mess of necks at a donut.
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  #18  
Old 04-30-2013, 04:34 PM
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Re: Redding neck sizing problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTK View Post
Look really close at that picture, see the ledge where the bushing rests? Now look right below it, see that little portion of the neck below the bushing?
That does not get sized................. That is what I am going to machine.
That should do fine.

I'm gonna talk with Redding and find out why I was told their .308 Win. full bushing dies size case necks all the way to the shoulder.
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  #19  
Old 04-30-2013, 04:49 PM
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Re: Redding neck sizing problem?

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Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
I've yet to see a bushing die that would size an entire neck. They have a land the bushing rests on, and this land area is not sized. It is of course possible to make a bushing die that does'nt rely on land resting.
Neil Jones make them and I've got a set: Micro Dies

Quote:
There is nothing good in sizing necks down to the shoulder. It just brings donut into the mix and with this you can forget consistent tensions.
There are many who disagree and have zero issues doing so because they do things right with them. Nobody's shot any more accurate ammo than they have sizing the entire neck down. And nary a donut issue for dozens of reloads per case.

It's OK by us that do so if you don't believe we can do it. The Catholic church scoffed at and tossed in jail two folks claiming the earth was not the center of the universe. They finally got justice. All of us sizing case necks all the way to the shoulder have more patience than busy doctors. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Sorry if all this is beyond you.[/QUOTE]
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  #20  
Old 04-30-2013, 06:43 PM
RTK RTK is offline
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Re: Redding neck sizing problem?

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Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
That should do fine.

I'm gonna talk with Redding and find out why I was told their .308 Win. full bushing dies size case necks all the way to the shoulder.
Maybe .308's do but unfortunately mine falls pretty short, and now you know why I kinda wanted the full neck.
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  #21  
Old 04-30-2013, 07:03 PM
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Re: Redding neck sizing problem?

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Originally Posted by RTK View Post
Maybe .308's do but unfortunately mine falls pretty short, and now you know why I kinda wanted the full neck.
I think you're gonna do best with necks being full sized all the way to the shoulder. Which is why many folks just lap the neck on a standard full length sizing die out to a desired diameter. That die will then size fired cases with the best neck centering on the case shoulder.

If the .308 bushing dies do not size the whole neck, then I was wrong; and so is that guy at Redding who told me otherwise. That aside, the Redding full bushing dies do make very accurate reloads.

Here's what German Salazar has to say about the Redding bushing dies' "partial neck sizing" issues that's my feelings on it, too:

Quote:
You're correct that the Type S die can be adjusted to provide partial neck sizing. Unlike the competition neck die which has a spring-loaded collar, the Type S will just let the bushing ride the case mouth up until the top of the bushing stops and then it will size to whatever degree is left.

The real question is whether using the unsized portion of the neck to center the cartridge in the chamber is practical. I think this is not an optimal solution for a few reasons. First, let's consider what we're really after - we want the bullet to get a good, well-centered start in the rifling. Now let's look at a few scenarios to get there.

A case that is only neck sized depends on the case body itself - or at least that's the theory - to center the bullet. In reality, the case is banana shaped to a greater or lesser degree, but always curved and it is highly unlikely that it will actually put the bullet into perfect, straight alignment in the throat. The fully resized neck and a bit of clearance in the throat mean that the bullet is likely pointed off center to some degree, following the curvature of the case.

A case that is full-length sized, but only partially neck sized, which is the condition you describe, depends on the unsized portion of the neck to center the bullet. The resized case body is still banana shaped, but has been sufficiently reduced in diameter at the shoulder to keep the curvature from wedging the case within the chamber. Now, we get to the unsized portion of the neck. There is approximately 0.001" diametrical clearance to the chamber neck on the unsized portion just from normal brass springiness. There is probably no more than 0.0005" diametrical clearance between the bullet and the throat and in many cases as little as 0.0002" clearance. In other words, there is one-half to one-fifth the clearance in the throat that there is in the unsized portion of the neck. Which is doing the alignment? If that were all, we could say there's no harm done by the partial neck sizing, but that isn't the whole story. Unless the bullet is perfectly concentric to the neck, there exists the possibility that the bullet's alignment in the throat is being influenced by the neck's eccentricity in relation to the bullet. If you're relying on two points to align the whole, those two points had better be perfectly concentric. The longer the unsized portion of the neck is, the greater likelihood of the neck inducing a misalignment in the throat due to imperfect neck to bullet concentricity.

Now the last scenario, a full-length sized case in which the neck is also fully sized. There is clearance at the neck and in the body of the case, the closest fit anywhere is the bullet in the throat. If the neck to bullet concentricity is good (although it needn't be perfect), then the bullet will find good alignment in the throat and the case body and neck will have minimal influence. Let's not forget that the base of the case is supported by the bolt face or the extractor to a certain degree as well; this is yet another influence on alignment. As you can see, there are several points from base to bullet that can have an effect. My procedure is to minimize the influence of those that I can control, namely the case body and neck, and let the alignment be dictated by the fit of the bullet in the throat and to some extent by the bolt's support of the base. Barring a seriously out of square case head, I don't think the bolt can have a negative effect on alignment, only a slightly positive effect from minimizing "case droop" in the chamber. Given that a resized case will usually have a maximum of 0.001" diametrical clearance at the web, this isn't much of a factor anyway.

In conclusion, I believe that allowing the bullet to find a relatively stress-free alignment in the throat by full length sizing (including the neck) and turning necks to enhance concentricity gives the bullet the best probability of a well-aligned start into the rifling. Additionally, I place a high value on easy bolt operation and true full length sizing helps that quite a bit. I favor easy bolt operation as a prone shooter because I keep the rifle in my shoulder for the entire string and struggling with the bolt not only can shift the buttplate (always with adverse consequences) but it is also a distraction from my attention to mirage and wind flags which ideally occupies all of the non-aiming time.
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