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reasonable chronograph

 
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2008, 04:11 PM
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Re: reasonable chronograph

Yeah, I have to take some issue with Clark. A chrono is useful for much more than bragging rights.

I shoot every single round during load development through a chrono and you find that velocity is a darn good indicator of pressure. Thats one solid use.

The next for me is drop charts, when you have settled on a load the chrono data will get your drop charts pretty close, and you can fine tune them to match the real world from there. I suppose this could be done without chrono data but havig it sure gets you in the ballpark quickly.

Third is deciding on otherwise equal loads or components. Velocity variation matters when you get out there aways. And you need to know what the trade off is for a change from one component to another. For example: my .308 shoots 168 and 175 Bergers equally well, it would take hundreds of rounds to pick a real winner between the two from an accuracy standpoint. From the Chrono I know though that the 175s require such a trade off in velocity that the higher BC%2
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Last edited by Forester; 12-02-2008 at 07:39 PM.
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  #9  
Old 12-02-2008, 05:01 PM
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Re: reasonable chronograph

"I don't think I need anything elabarate. Just something that will let me know what speeds I'm dealing with. Thanks Mike"

Okay Mike, for that anything on the market is "reasonable", they all work.

But, as an alternate view, I've never known anyone who bought a new truck and later said he wished it had less horsepower. Never known anyone who buught a new boat and said he wished it was a tad shorter. Never knew anyone who bought a new house and said he wished it was a bit smaller. Etc.

Meaning, going inexpensive at first will cover your "present needs" but not your needs, or at least your wishes, later. The Chronys are inexpensive. The "Pro Chrono" single units are simple to set up. Both types put the works in the line of fire and, if you are clumsy, they will surely get blown away. (And the width of the legs and overhead diffusers on any of them is larger than the actual sensitive focused portion of their photo lenses.)

I agonised over the same questions as you. I chose to bite the bullet, so to speak, and spend a bit more to get a much more capabable chronograph. My PACT Pro was double the cost of a good Chrony but still not tremensously high from MidwayUSA. (It only has the two inexpensive sky screens in harms way, haven't shot them yet but I've only been using it about 12 years so far )!

The main unit sits on the bench in front of me. It includes a printer and an internal computer which can do multiple tasks. It records the shot string, gives a running average and does standard deviation, extreme spread, etc. It also calculates and prints trajectory and windage charts for any range and wind I wish. It can compute "point blank" ranges for any set of condition I feed it. It can factor in the altitude, temp, humitity, sight height above the bore. It can also figure the ballistic coefficent of any bullet I can give it data on muzzle and 100 yard velocities for. It does gun recoil energy, kinetic energy and momentum of the bullet. Etc. And it's quite easy to set up too.

Or you can get a minimum unit which will give velocity if you really don't think you will ever want more data. But .... bigger, faster, stronger is always better?
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  #10  
Old 12-02-2008, 05:46 PM
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Re: reasonable chronograph

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forester View Post
Yeah, I have to take some issue with Clark. A chrono is useful for much more than bragging rights.

I shoot every single round during load development through a chrono and you find that velocity is a darn good indicator of pressure. Thats one solid use.

The next for me is drop charts, when you have settled on a load the chrono data will get your drop charts pretty close, and you can fine tune them to match the real world from there. I suppose this could be done without chrono data but havig it sure gets you in the ballpark quickly.

Third is deciding on otherwise equal loads or components. Velocity variation matters when you get ouut there aways. And you need to know what the trade off is for a change from one component to another. For example: my .308 shoots 168 and 175 Bergers equally well, it would take hundreds of rounds to pick a real winner between the two from an accuracy standpoint. From the Chrono I know though that the 175s require such a tradeoff in velocity that the high BC cannot overcome the difference downrange.

My CED M2 has missed very few readings in its life and the only ones I remember were muzzleloader shots where I had to play with the distance from the muzzle so it would not read the sabot instead. I usually do load development at the range at the edge of light in the morning when the wind is lowest. So it is important to me that the Chrono work on my schedule not force me to work on it's.

Absolutely. I agree with Forester 110%. ANd I will add that chronos also provide you with loading node information of where the powder is combusting at it's most efficient and consistent rate. I can't do what I do without a chrono. It would be impossible.
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  #11  
Old 12-02-2008, 06:14 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Posts: 424
Re: reasonable chronograph

you can't go wrong with the CED i left mine sitting on the picnic table at the ranch for a week it got rained on twice. i changed the batterys and it worked good as new
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  #12  
Old 12-02-2008, 10:40 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 46
Re: reasonable chronograph

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomtube View Post
"I don't think I need anything elabarate. Just something that will let me know what speeds I'm dealing with. Thanks Mike"

Okay Mike, for that anything on the market is "reasonable", they all work.

But, as an alternate view, I've never known anyone who bought a new truck and later said he wished it had less horsepower. Never known anyone who buught a new boat and said he wished it was a tad shorter. Never knew anyone who bought a new house and said he wished it was a bit smaller. Etc.

Meaning, going inexpensive at first will cover your "present needs" but not your needs, or at least your wishes, later. The Chronys are inexpensive. The "Pro Chrono" single units are simple to set up. Both types put the works in the line of fire and, if you are clumsy, they will surely get blown away. (And the width of the legs and overhead diffusers on any of them is larger than the actual sensitive focused portion of their photo lenses.)

I agonised over the same questions as you. I chose to bite the bullet, so to speak, and spend a bit more to get a much more capabable chronograph. My PACT Pro was double the cost of a good Chrony but still not tremensously high from MidwayUSA. (It only has the two inexpensive sky screens in harms way, haven't shot them yet but I've only been using it about 12 years so far )!

The main unit sits on the bench in front of me. It includes a printer and an internal computer which can do multiple tasks. It records the shot string, gives a running average and does standard deviation, extreme spread, etc. It also calculates and prints trajectory and windage charts for any range and wind I wish. It can compute "point blank" ranges for any set of condition I feed it. It can factor in the altitude, temp, humitity, sight height above the bore. It can also figure the ballistic coefficent of any bullet I can give it data on muzzle and 100 yard velocities for. It does gun recoil energy, kinetic energy and momentum of the bullet. Etc. And it's quite easy to set up too.

Or you can get a minimum unit which will give velocity if you really don't think you will ever want more data. But .... bigger, faster, stronger is always better?
Thanks everyone for all your replies. Boomtube; I really enjoyed your reply, in fact I had a good laugh. I wish you were here, we could change the " I've never known anyone" to I've only known one person..... I've got a Chevy 4x4 double cab that I'm going to have to replace one of these days and I was thinking of something smaller. I'm going to wait for awhile and see what Baraka Bozo does. It might have to run on electricity or maybe...... wishful thinking? I've got a 19' boat I'm going to sell next spring. I'm just not able to wrestle the boat on the trailer like I used to.( Montana has some stiff breezes at times). I already have it's replacement: a drift boat. I think we lucked out on the house we bought. We were thinking of something bigger but why have double the maintenance, cleaning and heating bill? What's this got to do with a chronograph? Not much except you have to assess your needs. First on my list is safety. I have a new 270 Win. barrel on a Enfield action. I re barreled from 30-06 to 270 for recoil and accuracy issues. With a medium load of H-4831 (54 gr. - 140 gr. Ab) the primers are starting to crater, flatten and it kicks like a mule. ( a young mule, sharp and crisp) It never kicked like that when it was a 30-06. The second is for the drop chart. I have a CZ 550 action, 25-06 AI shooting 130 gr. wildcat bullets which is coming along just fine-I think. With 59.5 gr. of H-1000 I shot a 3/8" 3 shot group. Recoil seems acceptable. I've done some research and Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital keeps coming up. I think I'll get one. At one time it was faster horses,younger women,older whiskey and more money. Now it seems like it's gentle horses, spending time with the grand kids,stay out of the whiskey and your on a budget. I may be getting long in the tooth but every time I see that beautiful sunset I turn around and run in the other direction. Thanks Mike
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  #13  
Old 12-02-2008, 11:09 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 466
Re: reasonable chronograph

Quote:
Originally Posted by gabby View Post
I've got a 19' boat I'm going to sell next spring. I'm just not able to wrestle the boat on the trailer like I used to.( Montana has some stiff breezes at times). I already have it's replacement: a drift boat.
On Oct 27 I saw a 125 pound man who had been packing out a big bull elk with 10 trips. He had a boat ~25 feet that he drove onto his trailer with in a foot of the winch, and attached the winch line from the bow. He was covered with blood, and yet not a move nor word was wasted as he explained to me how he got the elk and how I should find some. He runs Big Sky Rec V in Boseman. The launch was at Devil's Creek.

I have launched and trailered a boat a thousand times. I have watched a thousand others do it, in Seattle. Seeing great boating skill in MT was ironic.
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  #14  
Old 12-02-2008, 11:44 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 670
Re: reasonable chronograph

I hate chronos, no matter the brand. I'm always looking for magical es and sd numbers. Depending on what time of the day it is no matter which I use the numbers are different that the day before. I have found the only way to be consisent is to build a "coffin" of sorts and install lighting or the infared screens. If you don't have your own place to shoot this can be a real pain dragging to the range and real joke to set up. For the most part I only now use the chrono to get a base line and then use exbal to correct the reading if it's off for my drop chart. I then shoot a ton at distance to judge es and sd. I've found this is way more consistent. By the way I have one shooting chrony, a ced m2 and sold a oehler 35 recently. The last 2 were big step past the first 1 but not flawless.
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