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Pulling bullets / Reseating / Neck Tension

 
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:59 PM
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Pulling bullets / Reseating / Neck Tension

I recently did a test on pulling bullets and the resultant ID of necks to post on another forum about the NECESSITY for resizing after bullet pulls. Took pictures to document. These were all loads taken at random from my load boxes for 5 different calibers:

30-06 - marked 06-1
375 Ruger - marked 75-1 for the existing load and 3 NEW cases marked 75-2, 75-3 & 374-4 added later not shown in original pic
6.5 rem mag - marked 6.5-1
338RUM - marked 338-1
280AI - marked 280-1



I pulled the bullets with a press mounted die type collet puller and measured the ID's with pin gauges. In each case I would try the caliber size pin and go down until one fit

The 30-06 case had a snug fit on a .306" pin


The 375 Ruger case had a snug fit on a .373" pin


The 6.5 rem mag case had a snug fit on a .262" pin


The 338RUM had a loose fit on a .336" pin


The 280AI had a tight fit on a .282" pin



This will be a double post since you can only put 6 links in any one post and on the 375 Ruger I wanted to seat bullets into cases with different original ID's and see what they came back to.

However, my question would be

Why would any resizing be necessary if you always have a perfectly round neck expanded by the bullet and the bullet grip / inside diameter is always ~.002" below caliber? Most of these threads 90% of the posters all say you have to resize. Is that just the throw down or default answer or am I missing something here?
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Old 05-27-2013, 03:11 PM
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Re: Pulling bullets / Reseating / Neck Tension

The 375 Ruger is the only caliber I can come up with where I can start with greatly varying ID's since that is the only one I size with a FL sizer. All others are sized with a Lee Collet or Redding Bushing (only 2 bushing sizes on hand)

375 Ruger - NEW CASE UNSIZED before seating bullet .372" after pulling bullet .373"



375 Ruger - NEW CASE SIZED WITH EXPANDER before seating bullet .371" after pulling bullet .373"



375 Ruger - NEW CASE SIZED WITHOUT EXPANDER before seating bullet .361" (I really need to get around to ordering a Lee Collet and a .372" mandrel for it bad) after pulling bullet .373"



So it seems that all ID's return to the same place

Food for thought
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Old 05-27-2013, 03:27 PM
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Re: Pulling bullets / Reseating / Neck Tension

Woods,
Great report. question: do you know how many times cases used for report were loaded/fired/annealed?
Where do you get pin gauges like you used?
Thanks, Jeff
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Old 05-27-2013, 03:49 PM
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Re: Pulling bullets / Reseating / Neck Tension

Quote:
Originally Posted by 375fan View Post
Woods,
Great report. question: do you know how many times cases used for report were loaded/fired/annealed?
Where do you get pin gauges like you used?
Thanks, Jeff
06 once fired
375 Ruger 3 times fired
6.5 rem mag 4 times fired
338RUM once fired
280AI twice fired



Lost my link to the pin gauges, will do a search for old posts and see if I can find it but it will be later tonight
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Old 05-27-2013, 04:26 PM
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Re: Pulling bullets / Reseating / Neck Tension

Quote:
Originally Posted by woods View Post
06 once fired
375 Ruger 3 times fired
6.5 rem mag 4 times fired
338RUM once fired
280AI twice fired



Lost my link to the pin gauges, will do a search for old posts and see if I can find it but it will be later tonight
I did a quick search on your posts, is this it? CDCO Machinery Corp.
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Old 05-27-2013, 04:40 PM
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Re: Pulling bullets / Reseating / Neck Tension

Quote:
Originally Posted by woods View Post
Why would any resizing be necessary if you always have a perfectly round neck expanded by the bullet and the bullet grip / inside diameter is always ~.002" below caliber? Most of these threads 90% of the posters all say you have to resize. Is that just the throw down or default answer or am I missing something here?
You would not need to resize necks, as normal springback(your 2thou) provides plenty of grip. That springback is all that grips a bullet even if necks are downsized way more. A bullet will just re-upsize to cal, with springback gripping it, over & over.
With fitted chamber necks, no neck sizing is needed at all to reload, as the necks spring right back from chamber neck to under-cal(ready to recieve another bullet).

Would it surprise you if 90% of posters were wrong?
How many do you think have tested this like you just did?
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:38 PM
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Re: Pulling bullets / Reseating / Neck Tension

I guess it does surprise me if the percentage is correct at 90%. Just pulled that percentage out of the air so it might be less. Wouldn't surprise me if it was 60% that were wrong. Seems like there are a lot of rote reloaders who hear several say something and bingo, must be true. Sometimes it might be easier if I didn't have to prove everything to myself.

You mentioned springback and that is a seemingly simple concept that is just mentioned in passing and never fully explained. Went looking for proof or facts several years ago about the simple question of whether soft brass or work hardened brass had more springback. Never found any, just one article in a gun rag that SAID that work hardened brass had more springback.

It seems intuitive to me that soft brass would have more springback since brass expansion in a chamber as regards shoulder movement gets progressively less as the brass is work hardened. i.e. the shoulder moves forward approx. 85% of the total distance it will expand on the first firing, approx. 10% on the second firing and doesn't springback at all on the 3rd or 4th firing when it develops a crush fit.

IOW very little is known (at least by me) about the variables that influence the amount of springback. i.e. when, where & why

So do you have any explanation why the cases of mine that had been fired more often did not return to a different dimension? Or is the variation in springback in work hardened brass as opposed to new soft brass negligible or so small that it doesn't exhibit itself in thousandths?
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