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powder charge vs velocity

 
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  #22  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:37 PM
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Re: powder charge vs velocity

Just checked the Hodgdon load data and they have 49.5 listed as the max with a 140 grain bullet. It also indicates that your 2900+ chrono readings may be a little out of whack.
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  #23  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:42 PM
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Re: powder charge vs velocity

I'm sure there is a rational reason.
I've never seen, or met anyone who has seen, DECREASING velocity with MORE powder.
I've taken brass all the way to single shot death. The velocities always climbed, and predictably via Quickload.
Barring barrel and/or bolt failure, AND brass so yielded it could not ever be extracted with a bolt, I know of no way this would be possible.

If you could drive the bullet fast enough in a short barrel to cause an excess amount of slow powder to blow out unburned, you still had to burn enough powder to get it there. Adding more powder would only cause more of the same while increasing pressure AND velocity with it(even though diminished). Using less powder would slow the bullet down but no more powder is burning still, as the velocity IS lower(that's why it's lower).

No,, BML's velocity DID NOT go from 3039fps to 2861fps due to adding 0.5gr of powder.....
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  #24  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:55 PM
BML BML is offline
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Re: powder charge vs velocity

I'll have to check on the ES. I don't have the numbers in front of me.

When I tested these loads it was the last 90 minutes of shooting light so it is possible that lighting conditions caused false readings. In any case if I'm at max load I don't want to re test those loads anyway.

Brentc,
I was always under the impression that every rifle will have its own distinct "max load". There's many guys here on this site that shoot the 6.5x284 using 52-53g of H4831SC with no pressure signs at all. Plus lawyers always have a say in published max loads so I never really went by the book.
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  #25  
Old 05-23-2012, 09:05 PM
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Re: powder charge vs velocity

Quote:
Originally Posted by BML View Post
I'll have to check on the ES. I don't have the numbers in front of me.

When I tested these loads it was the last 90 minutes of shooting light so it is possible that lighting conditions caused false readings. In any case if I'm at max load I don't want to re test those loads anyway.

Brentc,
I was always under the impression that every rifle will have its own distinct "max load". There's many guys here on this site that shoot the 6.5x284 using 52-53g of H4831SC with no pressure signs at all. Plus lawyers always have a say in published max loads so I never really went by the book.
I've seen charges in my last 7stw that were below book max that were actually over-pressure. I had a strain guage on that rifle, and it really hit home how hard things were really being pushed when stuff got "warm". If a load was stiff on the bolt or chewed on the brass, it was over pressure. The 6.5x284 is one of those calibers what have some chamber variances, so you may be able go get away with pushing charge weight a bit, but you NEED to use your velocities as a speed limit.
An oehler chronograph wouldn't hurt either, as it measures twice. I don't think that my model 35 is in production any longer, though.
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  #26  
Old 05-23-2012, 09:23 PM
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Re: powder charge vs velocity

Quote:
Originally Posted by BML View Post
Brentc,
I was always under the impression that every rifle will have its own distinct "max load". There's many guys here on this site that shoot the 6.5x284 using 52-53g of H4831SC with no pressure signs at all. Plus lawyers always have a say in published max loads so I never really went by the book.
You're right. Every rifle is different. Some of the rifles you may be speaking may have differing chamber dimensions that allow for different load specifications. The best advice is to let your rifle tell you how much is too much, don't rely on other's rifles. I also agree that conservative load data is out there, but IMO Hodgdon data is about as reliable as any out there and with a standard chamber it will usually land your actual max within .5 grain of published max.
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  #27  
Old 05-23-2012, 09:43 PM
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Re: powder charge vs velocity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
I'm sure there is a rational reason.
I've never seen, or met anyone who has seen, DECREASING velocity with MORE powder.
I've taken brass all the way to single shot death. The velocities always climbed, and predictably via Quickload.
Barring barrel and/or bolt failure, AND brass so yielded it could not ever be extracted with a bolt, I know of no way this would be possible.

If you could drive the bullet fast enough in a short barrel to cause an excess amount of slow powder to blow out unburned, you still had to burn enough powder to get it there. Adding more powder would only cause more of the same while increasing pressure AND velocity with it(even though diminished). Using less powder would slow the bullet down but no more powder is burning still, as the velocity IS lower(that's why it's lower).

No,, BML's velocity DID NOT go from 3039fps to 2861fps due to adding 0.5gr of powder.....
I agree it's questionable data regarding velocity, and I also agree that more powder will cause increased pressure, but there is a point where average velocity hits a plateau despite increased powder charges and can show an average velocity decrease when all of the data is analyzed. I commonly see it manifest when averaging erratic extreme spread.
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  #28  
Old 05-23-2012, 10:19 PM
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Re: powder charge vs velocity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
I'm sure there is a rational reason.
I've never seen, or met anyone who has seen, DECREASING velocity with MORE powder.
I've taken brass all the way to single shot death. The velocities always climbed, and predictably via Quickload.
Barring barrel and/or bolt failure, AND brass so yielded it could not ever be extracted with a bolt, I know of no way this would be possible.

If you could drive the bullet fast enough in a short barrel to cause an excess amount of slow powder to blow out unburned, you still had to burn enough powder to get it there. Adding more powder would only cause more of the same while increasing pressure AND velocity with it(even though diminished). Using less powder would slow the bullet down but no more powder is burning still, as the velocity IS lower(that's why it's lower).

No,, BML's velocity DID NOT go from 3039fps to 2861fps due to adding 0.5gr of powder.....
Mikecr,

I agree with you. And if that phenomenon was plausible, it would be authoritatively documented. ...something I'll be eager to learn about if someone will cite those sources.

Until then, here's some food for thought...

Little Johnny flipped a nickle 3 times and got heads all three times.
Then, he flipped a dime 3 times and got tails all three times.
Why do nickles come up heads and dimes come up tails?

thanks,
richard
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